Author Topic: How to develop a combat aircraft...  (Read 4427 times)

Offline dirtdart

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2014, 07:09:38 PM »
Best light attack airplane is either the pilatus or tucano. The fact we fly CAS with f16 is an abomination.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2014, 12:50:11 AM »
That's my company!  :D

Awesome!  :aok

What do you do for BAe, if you're at liberty to say?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Blinder

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2014, 12:55:17 PM »
Awesome!  :aok

What do you do for BAe, if you're at liberty to say?

I've been working in the Land & Armaments Division for over 9 years now. Our facility used to be BMY (Bowen-McLauglin, York) for decades and then became United Defense Limited Partnership in the 1990s after a merger. We were officially absorbed into the BAE Systems family in the summer of 2005. I am desperately trying to get transferred to Pensacola, Florida to be involved with the T-45A Goshawk program which is essentially the same aircraft you are rightfully in love with in the pics you posted. The Hawk is, indeed, a beautiful aircraft.

My current position has me working in the Bradley Family of Infantry Fighting Vehicles remanufacture program as pictured below. This is a shot of our facility in action:

« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 12:57:24 PM by Blinder »
Fighter pilots win glory .... Bomber pilots win wars.



17th Guards Air Assault Regiment (VVS) "Badenov's Red Raiders"

Offline GScholz

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2014, 06:22:48 PM »
Nice! Always thought the Bradley was a good vehicle for its purpose, despite the infamous bureaucratic debacle of its conception. However, I completely understand why you'd rather be working on the Hawk! It's like an air-dolphin; utterly adorable!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline dirtdart

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2014, 08:02:12 AM »
I do love the Brad. We shoot gunnery again here in a month or so. In fact, next week my guys will actually get a chance to fire some live TOW rounds. As the service life on some old ones end, we somehow managed to get our hands on some. I will upload a pic if I get a chance.

On the whole light fighter thing.... the US is in a pickle when it comes to anticipating "next" fights and what systems will be required. So we pursue things like 5th generation fighters. The trouble is, the wars of the last 30 years have been low intensity (with some exceptions) and 5th generation fighters or attack airplanes are not sound economic options. I would like to see us arm the Texan IIs and use them as low intensity CAS a-la Skyraider. F16 flight hours are expensive. A10 is also pretty expensive.

If you ever landed at Kandahar you would see two F16s sitting at idle on the end of the runway just waiting to be launched, to drop one of two JDAM.... expensive. The Marines have gone so far as to arm C130 (see harvest hawk) in an attempt to have manned long duration CAS. The US really needs a low cost, long legged, manned, low intensity CAS platform.
If you are not GFC...you are wee!
Put on your boots boots boots...and parachutes..chutes...chutes.. .
Illigitimus non carborundum

Offline GScholz

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2014, 12:04:43 PM »
Arming C-130s isn't exactly a new idea. The first AC-130 flew in the late '60s.

Drones will fill the low-intensity CAS platform role in the future. 5th gen aircraft is for any potential high-intensity conflict with another nation state. Of course a low intensity conflict can be valuable training for 5th gen platforms.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 12:07:01 PM by GScholz »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2014, 12:29:08 PM »
What I'd like to know is why people are comparing this Scorpion with the F5?
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Offline GScholz

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2014, 12:32:49 PM »
I'm guessing it's because the F-5 is just an armed version of the advanced jet trainer T-38. The F-5 being supersonic is much more capable though...


"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Blinder

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2014, 12:43:07 PM »
I do love the Brad. We shoot gunnery again here in a month or so. In fact, next week my guys will actually get a chance to fire some live TOW rounds. As the service life on some old ones end, we somehow managed to get our hands on some. I will upload a pic if I get a chance.

On the whole light fighter thing.... the US is in a pickle when it comes to anticipating "next" fights and what systems will be required. So we pursue things like 5th generation fighters. The trouble is, the wars of the last 30 years have been low intensity (with some exceptions) and 5th generation fighters or attack airplanes are not sound economic options. I would like to see us arm the Texan IIs and use them as low intensity CAS a-la Skyraider. F16 flight hours are expensive. A10 is also pretty expensive.

If you ever landed at Kandahar you would see two F16s sitting at idle on the end of the runway just waiting to be launched, to drop one of two JDAM.... expensive. The Marines have gone so far as to arm C130 (see harvest hawk) in an attempt to have manned long duration CAS. The US really needs a low cost, long legged, manned, low intensity CAS platform.

Since the US government has already made a substantial investment with the T-45A program, I think it would make sense to invest in additional Hawk airframes for the light strike CAS mission you speak of. The logistical aspects of maintaining light strike fleet as well as the naval trainer fleet would be assuaged between the common shared component aspects of fleet maintenance and supply. And I'm not just saying this because I work for one of the two prime Goshawk contractors either ...... oh who the heck and am I kidding? ... Yes I am!
Fighter pilots win glory .... Bomber pilots win wars.



17th Guards Air Assault Regiment (VVS) "Badenov's Red Raiders"

Offline dirtdart

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2014, 04:04:49 PM »
Arming C-130s isn't exactly a new idea. The first AC-130 flew in the late '60s.

Drones will fill the low-intensity CAS platform role in the future. 5th gen aircraft is for any potential high-intensity conflict with another nation state. Of course a low intensity conflict can be valuable training for 5th gen platforms.

The idea of purpose built... no. The idea of taking a normal herc and dangling hellfire... yes.
If you are not GFC...you are wee!
Put on your boots boots boots...and parachutes..chutes...chutes.. .
Illigitimus non carborundum

Offline GScholz

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2014, 05:29:17 PM »
Conversion... Lockheed builds the C-130, Boeing converts them to AC-130.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline save

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2014, 06:50:45 PM »
SK60 !


« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 06:55:24 PM by save »
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Offline artik

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2014, 02:00:24 AM »
What I'd like to know is why people are comparing this Scorpion with the F5?

Because F-5 was developed as cost effective aircraft with the simplicity in operation in mind. Something that is rarely, if at all, done today (at least successfully).  It was mostly developed on private founding of Northrop.

Also it isn't falls to the same category as Scorpion (F-5 is in the same category as MiG-21 or Mirage III) but the general idea behind the development are very-very similar.

...This is what happens when an F/A-18 Hornet and Cessna 172 Skyhawk have unprotected sex.  :confused:

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Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2014, 09:43:41 AM »
thats actually a good looking aircraft

Offline Puma44

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Re: How to develop a combat aircraft...
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2014, 10:56:27 AM »
I'm guessing it's because the F-5 is just an armed version of the advanced jet trainer T-38. The F-5 being supersonic is much more capable though...


(Image removed from quote.)
Are you saying the T-38 isn't supersonic capable?



All gave some, Some gave all