Minefields surrounding spawn points = new object for terrain developers

[Xavier]

Player rolls out in a perk tank. Hits a mine. ch200 explodes.

[Tinkles]

Player rolls out in a perk tank. Hits a mine. ch200 explodes.

Very true.

[Chilli]

I understand the desire to decrease spawn camping.  It is a very annoying and gamey, yet hard to avoid, aspect of fighting games.  However, if the mines keep the enemy out of the spawn area, how do the friendlies ever leave the spawn area without their own mines blowing them up?  Or would the mines be "gamey", i.e. only capable of blowing up enemies?

I think perhaps a better solution is to have multiple GV spawn points, some further back from the action, like some maps already have.  With multiple spawn points it's harder to camp all of them.

In the original post:


What is the purpose and how should it act

•The map designer or Scenario admin would be able to set minefields surrounding Ground Vehicle spawn points
•The new danger will add new dimension to moving into an enemies spawn position
•It would be the spawn's equivalent to auto guns   Yes, that's what friendly munitions (ack ack, bombs, ship guns) do now,  they do not explode friendly armor (although this could depend on arena setting)
•Disarming them could be tied to base ammo bunkers, even assigning particular bunkers to specific areas
•Graphics could simulate the minefield warning signs as seen in WW2 film footage.  After rolling a perked tank onto a marked minefield, a player who whines should totally be ignored
•Brand new ground strategy for Scenarios or possibly even Main Arena
•The charges should reflect the amount of damage to vehicles according to armor type.  Perked tanks would most likely become tracked, giving even less of a reason to whine.
•Advanced graphics idea could render exploded tanks as burning shells for a period of time (instead of disappearing act)

[Lusche]

•It would be the spawn's equivalent to auto guns   Yes, that's what friendly munitions (ack ack, bombs, ship guns) do now,  they do not explode friendly armor (although this could depend on arena setting)

There is a huge difference between things. Auto guns are simulating the crews as well, they decide not to fire on you (but in fact they actually can hurt and even kill you if you get in their line of fire). A mine doesn't make that decision. It explodes when it's triggered.
So a mine field would have to be marked for the friendly. But in the end, every experienced player will quickly now the location of mine fields. And in the end, not the spawn itself would be camped (which is actually often not completely possible anyway), but the routes out of the mine field. The effect would probably be not very different.

[R 105]

 I am trained in Land Mine Warfare and it is not only used to slow the advance of an Army but also used to funnel your enemy into your fields of fire. A truly effective minefield is an in depth minefield miles wide. Both Rommel and the British made great use of in depth in minefields in the African theater in WWII. Rommel was working on a minefield belt six miles deep in France but did not have the mines or the time to complete it before the 6 June 1944 invasion. (See The Rommel papers)

I can see a use for mines in the game specially if we had a way to lay them as needed but we would then need a way to clear them other than running them over. That brings up the question on towed anti tank guns that could be in place around the minefields to defend against them being cleared and also placed into areas the force the funneling of enemy armor by the use of mines. This could be pretty fun specially with a towed 88mm gun and give us a new ground game with not the much work.

[Drane]

I am trained in Land Mine Warfare and it is not only used to slow the advance of an Army but also used to funnel your enemy into your fields of fire. A truly effective minefield is an in depth minefield miles wide. Both Rommel and the British made great use of in depth in minefields in the African theater in WWII. Rommel was working on a minefield belt six miles deep in France but did not have the mines or the time to complete it before the 6 June 1944 invasion. (See The Rommel papers)

I can see a use for mines in the game specially if we had a way to lay them as needed but we would then need a way to clear them other than running them over. That brings up the question on towed anti tank guns that could be in place around the minefields to defend against them being cleared and also placed into areas the force the funneling of enemy armor by the use of mines. This could be pretty fun specially with a towed 88mm gun and give us a new ground game with not the much work.

Checkout these wishes for land and sea mine layers from last year...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353669.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353666.0.html

[Chilli]

There is a huge difference between things. Auto guns are simulating the crews as well, they decide not to fire on you (but in fact they actually can hurt and even kill you if you get in their line of fire). A mine doesn't make that decision. It explodes when it's triggered.
So a mine field would have to be marked for the friendly. But in the end, every experienced player will quickly know the location of mine fields. And in the end, not the spawn itself would be camped (which is actually often not completely possible anyway), but the routes out of the mine field. The effect would probably be not very different.

Okay, so what if infantry engineers are being simulated as well?

Yes, I want the minefield to be marked in order to persuade enemy not to "close range" camp the defenseless spawning vehicles.  Once the vehicle is in motion and has bearings on his surroundings, he should be a target.  It is the kills that we all have experienced from both sides, because the spawn plops vehicles right in front of an enemy's turret that will have added consequences. Also, the added range allows the vehicles a "fighting chance," that is a big difference from camping spawns. 

I see nothing wrong with funneling action into an area that presents a challenge for all.

I am trained in Land Mine Warfare and it is not only used to slow the advance of an Army but also used to funnel your enemy into your fields of fire. A truly effective minefield is an in depth minefield miles wide. Both Rommel and the British made great use of in depth in minefields in the African theater in WWII. Rommel was working on a minefield belt six miles deep in France but did not have the mines or the time to complete it before the 6 June 1944 invasion. (See The Rommel papers)

I can see a use for mines in the game specially if we had a way to lay them as needed but we would then need a way to clear them other than running them over. That brings up the question on towed anti tank guns that could be in place around the minefields to defend against them being cleared and also placed into areas the force the funneling of enemy armor by the use of mines. This could be pretty fun specially with a towed 88mm gun and give us a new ground game with not the much work.

Most of the negative comments, about mines, have been concerning individuals' ability to position them.  Unlike the proposed minefield, as you thankfully have noted, which is a barrier and creates likely paths to engagement. 

Disarming enemy minefields can be achieved by destroying the ammo bunkers of the spawning base (see original post). 

Now that it is mentioned, even a white flag approach to this should be reasonable to coad (but then I am only guessing that change in color of town flag to white, could translate to changing warning signs to blank white signs).

[Zoney]

-1 to mines

[800nate800]

As long as we can see them alittle bit and can blow em up with a HE round

[Chilli]

-1 to mines

And that ends that conversation....    As much time as it took to, boost your post count, you could have given a reason.

This is important, because almost all of the NEGATIVE posts have been concerning something that I a NOT promoting.

NO THE DESIGN FOR MINEFIELDS DOES NOT INCLUDE RANDOM PLACEMENT BY INDIVIDUALS. 

YES, YOU WILL KNOW WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED, BUT THEY WILL NOT BE SEEN, ONLY SHOWN AS A MINEFIELD WITH WARNING SIGNS.  ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK...  and why would you want to enter, other than to participate in the gamey baby seal bashing that occurs at an enemy's spawn...... I unfriend u..... 

As long as we can see them alittle bit and can blow em up with a HE round

Sorry Nate, but you would have to kill the ammo bunkers to be sure to disarm them.  They will not be visible, so lobbing HE might have a nice effect, but until the bunkers are down the mines are in place.

It bothers me a little that folks fail to read the original post and yet have negative comments about some other idea that is not being discussed.... I appreciate the thread bumps, though. 

In Nate's case, this is possibly his own added wish (I totally understand) but not the original idea.  It would defeat the purpose, and would be more difficult, also involve less strategy than involving multiple ammo bunkers, which give more protection to certain fields than others.

[The Fugitive]

I think it's a waste of time and effort. Sure it's something ....... much like eye candy to add to the game but to aid in stopping spawn camping? Not going to happen.

There are already two things IN the game to curb spawn camping, the size of the random spawn point that HTC controls and hedgerows that the map make controls.

They hedgerows can be placed to funnel players away from spawn point just as well as " minefields" without the time and effort to build new element that would then need to be added to the game. On top of that they have never seemed to be worried about spawn camping anyway.

As a strategic element it would most likely just be avoided.  Players would wait outside the minefields and camp there.

[R 105]

 :

Just as an option, this is a wishlist request for a new type of object. 

Minefields were important defenses against attacks.  A new "minefield" object could either include multiple trigger points or a single trigger point ( I would opt for the multiple, making laying them out somewhat like placing a small base on the terrain).


What is the purpose and how should it act

• The map designer or Scenario admin would be able to set minefields surrounding Ground Vehicle spawn points
• The new danger will add new dimension to moving into an enemies spawn position
• It would be the spawn's equivalent to auto guns
• Disarming them could be tied to base ammo bunkers, even assigning particular bunkers to specific areas
• Graphics could simulate the minefield warning signs as seen in WW2 film footage
• Brand new ground strategy for Scenarios or possibly even Main Arena
• The charges should reflect the amount of damage to vehicles according to armor type
• Advanced graphics idea could render exploded tanks as burning shells for a period of time (instead of disappearing act)

(Image removed from quote.)

 

[Zoney]

And that ends that conversation....    As much time as it took to, boost your post count, you could have given a reason.

I don't want to see anymore crap operating or placed or driven on the ground period. There is plenty already and none of it has anything to do with fighting in airplanes unless you count the GV's that sit on the ground and shoot at aircraft.  I came here to fly airplanes, not run around on the ground or be shot down by some griefer who's not even flying.

[Chilli]

There are already two things IN the game to curb spawn camping, the size of the random spawn point that HTC controls and hedgerows that the map make controls.

The hedgerows can be placed to funnel players away from spawn point just as well as " minefields" without the time and effort to build new element that would then need to be added to the game. On top of that they have never seemed to be worried about spawn camping anyway.

Fugitive,

I have no idea of how much time it would take to a develop a new object AND coad the minefield trigger effect.  Down times effect tied to ammo bunkers, again I don't know how much effort this takes.  However, you have pointed to random size of spawn points.  What use if any is the random spawn point, other than to avoid the very same thing that is being discussed here (and fails to a degree).  Obviously, HTC has considered this an area that needed attention.

None of the features currently IN game do anything to physically stop an enemy from "driving" right up next to where defenseless targets are "randomly" about to spawn.

I don't want to see anymore crap operating or placed or driven on the ground period. There is plenty already and none of it has anything to do with fighting in airplanes unless you count the GV's that sit on the ground and shoot at aircraft.  I came here to fly airplanes, not run around on the ground or be shot down by some griefer who's not even flying.

Thank you, your reason is clearly noted.  I of course don't agree.  A lot of air activity is created by actions taken by Ground Vehicles.  A perfect example was early this morning, with less than 70 players total, I did something out of character just for giggles.  I wasn't attempting to grief anyone.  I merely, got tired of flying to into the same buzz saw of HO happy  190Ds and Pony Ds.

I drove almost a full sector in a M3 with troops, after deacking the town for A16.  Nothing was going on prior in that entire sector.  Three or four other friendlies heard of what I was doing, and figured what the heck, this might work ( other Knights as wacky as me).
 
Although, I made it to the town safely and had a small window to get troops to the maproom, the capture failed, but only due to another M3 who just resupplied the ack in time to catch my troops while running.  This single spark, created constant air action including several spitfires who defended against the bombers and later the jabos that came to help for an access of 30 minutes.

I assume that HTC doesn't make decisions based on emotion.  As noted by Fugitive, time and priorities probably rule the day for the HTC drawing board, and that nobody should try and argue. 

I wish to have this or similar feature in place to combat, what I see as easy  kills.  This is only one idea that I thought would help promote even handed spawn action. 

[Chilli]

Maybe a picture is better.  * Choke points; Actung Minen; Warning Mines

minefield                *           spawn                                * minefield

minefield        * minefield

enemy spawn enemy spawn