Building the next generation of AH2 sticks

[Ratsy]

Just for the sake of discussion, what has changed over time in the game to encourage the organizational behavior described in the OP?  I would take the position that what HiTech does, or doesn't do, has nothing to do with the OP's disgust at the quality of fights in the MA.  Take HiTech out of any culture discussions. please.
 
I was around for the original beta and first 2 years.  After a break, I came back in 2005.

It seems to me that HiTech spent a number of development cycles to create the situations and circumstances that some players value - like the 1v1 duel.  If you step back in the organizational development model to the step called 'environment analysis', we might agree that a pure focus on the main arena is too narrow.  HiTech gave us the dueling arena and custom private arenas where the players involved can set the parameters and circumstances of such duels.

Years ago, I wrote in another forum in another game that game designers create a sandbox for us to play in.  They even give us toys, like bombers, fighters and tanks to fly and drive around in the sandbox.  That's what we pay for, but it is up to us, not the game designers, to determine how we use it.  I was pleased see a post from Ink this year that said much the same thing about AH.  Rich has stated in this thread that 'every type of game play was dynamic' in the old days.  The amount of things that shoot and the large dimensions of the arenas give each of us a lot of latitude about how we approach the game.  There's freedom in that.  I think the dynamics still exist, but low numbers exaggerate the behaviors we don't agree with.

It's my opinion that this same variability will serve us all well in the long run. 

This hit home with me the only time I played War Thunder.  It was the very first time I sat in a waiting room waiting for a 'match' to make in a tiny arena with all aircraft at the same altitude.  I felt constrained to 'run with the pack'...I couldn't communicate...there wasn't any apparent freedom of movement.  To me, this is why the graphics upgrade is important to AH.  Also important is the AH pricing model.  Your monthly fee provides you with everything you need to be successful in the game.  No extras to buy.  There's freedom in that aspect as well.  I don't think all of our ex-soviet friends have a good feel for freedom yet.  They do understand revenue, however.  They merely started a generation ahead of AH with regard to graphics.  (I am dismissing them for the long haul)

There's some critical questions to be asked when an organizational development model is considered.  Questions like:
Why is it important to 'land' kills?
Why is kill/death the most important ratio in the scoring system? (apparently).
Why isn't hit percentage considered a more telling statistic for competency?
Is our culture about being known as the baddest guy in the valley?  Or the sneakiest?  Or the most prudent?
Do we value teamwork in our approach to game play?  How is that measured?
...and there's a whole lot more questions that will help reveal 'who we are' as a community.

I also agree with the high value Rich places on squadron life in Aces High.  The honorable squadron is the only reliable repository of our community values.  Again, something that HiTech would find impossible to manage and has, rightly, never bothered with it.

So, the OP talked in terms of community core values.  What if my core value was to show up to a 1v1 fight with a wing man?

 

[Lusche]

Why is kill/death the most important ratio in the scoring system? (apparently).

It is not.

[Swoop]

When was the last time you saw an M16 or an Ostwind in the MA?  

The GV war is popular cos the GVers enjoy getting dozens of kills in that monster the Wirblewind and can effectively operate without air cover.  Perk the damn thing, just 1 or 2 perks.  Maybe we'll actually see other forms of air defence, perhaps an Ostwind or 2, I haven't seen an Ostwind in years, it's like they're an endangered species.  Maybe, just maybe, the GVers will start to need fighter cover again.  Maybe this'll turn back into a combined arms game, you never know.

Ok, how about please?

[Lusche]

The GV war is popular cos the GVers enjoy getting dozens of kills in that monster the Wirblewind and can effectively operate without air cover.

This is a massive exaggeration. Especially with ords up, there's still no way to "operate without fighter cover". In fact, even with ords down it's not as easy these days  as it was back in 2006 when a Tiger rolling to an ords-less airbase had nothing to fear than another Tiger.
Back then the Ostie was much more efficient than today and thus filled almost the same role than the Wirbel does now.
And likewise it's also often forgotten to mention that our Wirbel was much more powerful as well when it was introduced.

[NatCigg]

"Years ago, I wrote in another forum in another game that game designers create a sandbox for us to play in.  They even give us toys, like bombers, fighters and tanks to fly and drive around in the sandbox.  That's what we pay for, but it is up to us, not the game designers, to determine how we use it."

 

I would rather live in a van down by a river than live is some structured cubicle outlined by some righteous sects ideal behavior.

 

God bless America.

[The Fugitive]

I agree that we have a wonderful sandbox full of great toys, the problem is most players seem to want to take the path of least resistance to accomplish what ever "goal" is their fancy.

You want to get GV kills you take out a Panther or M18 and find a cozy spot to spawn camp.

You want base captures, you join a horde

You want kills in the air you jump in a pony or D9 or A8 ho, pick and run.

Its like a herd of cattle. Most hang out in this one pasture eating the grass and drinking from the same waterhole and will do so until there is nothing left. They have to be lead to a different pasture.

I think it's time for HTC to think about leading the cows to a different pasture, before they all die off. The players have already shown they they can/won't change on their own. I'm not saying "remove this so they can't do THAT again!" we don't want to chase NatCigg away  I just think they should make "better play" more rewarded and bad play not rewarded.

Make small group captures easier and perked, make horde captures harder with no perks. Make squad captures the same as a small group, reward that behavior. Make mega squads hitting the same base hard work and unrewarding.

They can still play in hordes but they just won't get the rewards. Your not taking it away, but your not rewarded for that type of play either. Again, the players decide what is important in their style of play.

I don't care how pretty the terrain looks, people are not going to stay long if they are constantly harassed, or get stuck being the last guy to a base all the time with a full load of ord and nothing to drop it on, or always be vulched trying to defend against 30 guys capping the field. Maybe its time to add the "Top Squad" to the scoresheet at the end of the month. Don't list the top "fighter" squad, or the top "bomber" squad, list only the top all around squad. Generate squad competition, generate squad training so those squads work together to excel at that competition, generate competition between squads to find, train new players into their ranks. Bring back the competition into the game instead of the running around trying to get as many kills as you can.

[alskahawk]

 There is a lot of potential in this game but this game is on a downward slide.
 
 Air combat has become; learn to HO. The better you HO the better stick you are.
 Bullet drop is ridicules. Bullet dispersion is almost non-existent. The idea that you can hit targets 800 yards+ is ludicrous.
 The three country idea doesn't work. The majority of two countries are going to go for the weaker third.
 ENY should have been done away with a long time ago.
 Perks. Most players have tons of perks after playing a few months. Perking a jet 200 perkies doesn't do much. At peak times the MA arena seldom goes much over 300. Add in the number playing GV, not flying and it's difficult to mount effective defenses. And sometimes to find a fight. 
 Bombing HQ. Too many capture able bases.  Some maps are too large.
 Dogfighting Bombers. Bombers that out run fighters at altitude. Out turn fighters. Guns that hit targets 1000-1500 yards out.
 Certain planes have over generous stats. LA7, YAK 3. Turn rates, stall rates, acceleration rates
 Damage model needs work.
 Pilot hit needs work. 
 

[FTJR]

To my mind I believe HTC works to a very tight budget, and is very disciplined to remain within that budget. This is the main reason for the slow progression of the updates to the game. Alot of work to be done and few hands available.

They should utilize the depth of "free" talent to help with certain aspects of the game, (I am thinking of new planes, but there are other areas) to do the grunt work, and oversee the results to bring it to the standard that they desire. This would free them up to see the "bigger picture" and act accordingly.

I saw recently a post on one persons visit to HTC's offices, and HiTech doing some repetitive task, if my memory of the post is correct, then this is wrong, the boss should be supervising this sort of work.

My 2 cents worth.

[GhostCDB]

Talk about beating a dead horse

[FLOOB]

I know the reason why gameplay in AH has changed since 2002. It's the war. We elder dweebs started out in AW, where there was no war. There was base capture, but there was no war winning that I can recall. To us wb and ah were just a continuation of aw. From our perspective AH is not a war fighting sim it's a dogfighting sim. We came with the mindset inwhich our objective wasn't to win our objective was to get in dogfights. As time passed us old dweebs were gradually suplanted by new dweebs. Without the indoctrination that we had, they have a different perspective. And we cant fault them for it. Why wouldn't they have the perspective that the ma is a war? And why wouldn't their objective be to win? So for the new flight/war sim virgin just coming to AH his priority is going to be to get better at winning the war, not necesarily to get better at dogfighting. If he is in a fighter he is doing air to ground. At any given time in the ma now I bet the majority of fighters in the air are jabos. If you made a mission in the ma today that didnt have some kind of air to ground element in it, a new player would look at it and think, "why".

[Swoop]

This is a massive exaggeration.

Just for interest, how much of an exaggeration is it?  What is a Wirbs av K/d ratio v aircraft in the MA?  What was an Ostwind's K/d ratio in the MA before being nerfed?  How many Wirb sorties compared to M16 / Ostwind sorties were there last tour?

[nrshida]

I really never hear the observation that the broader culture in which Aces High exists is changing. Western culture is or has been increasingly results-focussed and time restricted. This will inevitably announce here too. It's not surprising that a growing percentage use ack to solve their ACM problems, for instance.

[Plawranc]

I find that the biggest problem is the subscription system. Quite ironically I have been paying my subscription even though I have been inactive.

The reason? Aces High 2 is not just a game I play. To us younger players, the friends we made here are almost family.

My best friend on this game. Scott (aka 1sum41). Is now a married man in the army. I chat to him all the time, my fiance knows his wife etc.etc. All of that just because of a stupid flight simulator we played as teenagers? No. This game is something else.

It is a community, but a magical one. I am pretty sure lots of people remember my first forays into this game many a year ago. Squeaking shrilly and enthusiastically as I horammed an F6F for vulching me. Or my incoherent high pitched Australian rants on range vox. The squelch button saw liberal use on my gamer ID.

It would be fair to say that many of us grew up WITH this game. Joachim, GhostCDB, Myself, 1sum41, 800nate and the ever infamous NathBDP.

I am 20 now. I was 13 when I started playing this game. The idea of it dying is intolerable to me. 

[guncrasher]

In the mean time, something has to be done about the culture of AH. I've spent the past decade dealing with small organizations and culture. All organizations have culture. Just as all people have character. Some good, some great, most mediocre to horrible. The culture of AH has become arcadish, which is likely the most positive description of it.

Top notch organizations speak and act differently.


Long gone is the honor of being able to drag a pursuing fighter out of a "horde" to have a 1 v 1, and everyone would let it happen!!!


With the second action, I would suggest a room for squad leaders, or interested parties to begin brainstorming, planning and seeing what can or should be done. And for HiTech to listen.

Boo

dude we arent an organization with a centralized ceo giving commands and having those below him/her follow those commands.  and if we ever were to be something like that, I would not play at all.  heck most of the guys would not play at all.  there are some that couldnt care less about taking a base or winning a war or the strategy part of the game.  to some it is all about having a couple of fights, bs with some friends while teasing others on 200.

and I dont really play a lot, but I cannot possibly be the only one in this game that gets or sees other people into 1v1 fights all the time.  even in the middle of a furball there's always somebody that will ask not to jump in.  I hardly ever see anybody interrupt the fight.  ask potsnpans he kept having individual fights the other day with another guy who kept asking us not to jump in.  it's all about asking.

as for hitech to listen, oh he does listen.  that's why we dont have a 2 country war, it's been tried and 3 country war was found to be better.  just like some of the other suggestions you mentioned.  tried and proven wrong. 

as for giving more perks, dude you can have mine.  there's some great sticks that have no problem getting 40 or 50 perks per flight and have zero perks because they lawndart every single 262 or tempest they get their hands on  .  but they do it with style  .

you want to see an arcadish culture, go play wot or wop or wowp's. then comeback and compare.


semp

[Slate]

  I can see the OP's reasoning and requests for change.  Changes HTC has made in the past were to shape behavior of players. Some worked and some did not like any experiment.
  There is a wish list forum and General discussion where many have voiced their displeasure over the 12hr rule ect. HTC has looked at those issues and made THIER decision which SOME don't agree with.
  
   Your experience with the cultures of groups is quite right.
   Did it not often come down to Leadership?

   HTC has shown strong leadership in not letting the a MOB rule this game.

   Many of the players who actions some find undesirable are in Squads, where is the leadership?

   I think it is human nature to focus on the negative which causes them to forget the good stuff that happens every day in this game. I see and exchange salutes with players every time I play.

   I admit some days are tough when a country is being rolled due to a #s imbalance and you feel overwhelmed and frustrated. It's up to you to change tactics to find your fun in the sandbox.