Answer from HTC please.

[lyric1]

I don't answer loaded questions.
Nothing has changed.

HiTech

On question #1 not sure how I would ask without it being considered a loaded question.
So I will just let that issue go.

On question #2 it boils down to urban legend/myth on my part 2.5K is not the range for proxy kills it is in fact 2K or less.

There is still an issue with proxy kills though.
The thread I posted in the bug forum has two films in it the second film is correct as the first aircraft explodes at 2.1k & should not have given me the proxy.
The first film though I am in range of the two remaining aircraft when he towers & I am awarded only 1 proxy.

 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,363896.0.html

[Tilt]

AW style system messages......

Goober has been shot down
Goober has crashed
Goober has bailed
Goober has crashed a healthy plane/ vehicle
Goober has bailed from a healthy plane / vehicle

[lyric1]

AW style system messages......

Goober has been shot down
Goober has crashed
Goober has bailed
Goober has crashed a healthy plane/ vehicle
Goober has bailed from a healthy plane / vehicle

Better still.

Goober since you bailed right after your bombs hit.
All damage & score & perk points as well as achievements has been rescinded from this sortie.
Please up another set of bombers & try again.

[Lusche]

Better still.

Goober since you bailed right after your bombs hit.
All damage & score & perk points as well as achievements has been rescinded from this sortie.
Please up another set of bombers & try again.

To prevent the above:

1. drop bombs
2. nose down
3. rip wings.
4. bail.

And anyone using bomb&bail tactics is not interested in things like score anyway.

[Wiley]

Better still.

Goober since you bailed right after your bombs hit.
All damage & score & perk points as well as achievements has been rescinded from this sortie.
Please up another set of bombers & try again.

Awesome.  That will really cut down on the bomb and bailing.  Unfortunately, there will be an oddly identical increase in

Goober has crashed a healthy plane/vehicle.

But that's apparently much better?

Oh wait, the next suggestion is the same thing will apply if they crash a healthy plane, right?

So he takes it through ground ack before he piles it in, making sure it pings him.

How is that an improvement?

Wiley.

[Ninthmessiah]

On question #1 not sure how I would ask without it being considered a loaded question.
So I will just let that issue go.

 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,363896.0.html

The question presumes the existence of a bomb and bail plague.  How could HTC remedy a plague that does not exist? 

The question also presumes that it is within HTC's power and duty to regulate every little chitty and gamey act of its players.

It also presumes the existence of viable remedies.

I must be bored b/c I find that I really don't care about this.

[Tilt]

To prevent the above:

1. drop bombs
2. nose down
3. rip wings.
4. bail.

And anyone using bomb&bail tactics is not interested in things like score anyway.

Goober has bailed.

Maybe players will note Goober bails quite alot.

The single biggest difference moving from AW to AH (14 years ago!) was the style of system message.

In AW there was no system message celebrating successes............. only failures. If Goober was shot down, crashed or bailed the whole arena was told. Indeed if you shot down an aircraft the only clue as to who it was .... was the subsequent system message of his demise..... no hint as to who had the kill. ( excepting macro's)

IMO this changes the game ephos considerably.

It must have been a very conscious decision by HT to adopt positive system messages. I assume AH's are much the same as WB's.

I remain however a fervent believer in BB's philosophy of "shame". As a motivating or de motivating  influence.......

In AH only "Glory" is reported via system messages........  which whilst being all very " positive" IMO also encourages dweebish game play.

Actually BB argues that  MMOG's should avoid shame to grow successfully. (His perspective is the learning curve as a demotivating factor not through time lost but shame incurred) But in making this point we see the power of shame........

So if we want to discourage stuff I would advocate the game model should provide an element of shame either directly or via a route that players would recognise.

For any one interested......

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131802/glory_and_shame_powerful_.php?print=1

[RotBaron]

A gv it's 6k to get successful landing?

 Is it 2k in a gv to avoid giving the other guy a proxy?

2k for bomb and bail'rs giving the other guy a proxy?

If this is true, no one responded directly, why is it different for gv's? Bomb and bailers should need to be 6k too.

[Lusche]

If this is true, no one responded directly, why is it different for gv's? Bomb and bailers should need to be 6k too.

It's not really different.

Proxy kill range is the same for both.

A GV ditching in enemy territory with enemy between 2k - 6k will get a "captured" result - a bailer will get a "captured" as well.

[bustr]

That was written by AW BlueBaron. Why does Hitech differ in his own analysis of player motivation as seen in this game? Both men developed for AW with Hitech moving on to develop two more air combat simms.

Mr. Baron was originally a political consultant, who are a breed hired to manipulate the worst out of people to benefit the personal fortunes of politicians. Not the politicians constituency, just his donors. His views on motivation result in the kinds of problems Skuzzy had to Mega WhupBan in our forums recently. Yes you can motivate with negative reinforcement and end up with an arena dominated by a minority of ch200 screeching narcissists. That's how we lost ch1. And needed a second MA instead of cramming 600 players together in the same arena. The rancid nature of community induced negative motivation without help from Hitech was reaping it's own reward. In politics it is a powerful way to get your guy elected and cover up his failings the rest of the time. You end up with an elite class and low information voters fed garbage by political consultants. Very aristocratic.  

[NatCigg]

I was vulching a base yesterday (ack up) and ups this a6m. I kill him and then comes a formation of b25s I get shots in and he bails formation.  Then he continues uping formations and as I get close he bails.  I rack up 22 kills and head home to land.

Next sortie I fly back to the same base.  Two spits around and the 25s are at about 3k.  I go after the 25s and he bails, 3 kills. I fight with the spits and stay close to the field.  The 25s keep uping under the fight and when I get a chance I poke at the formation 25s and he continues to bail as I get close. I rack up 14 total kills as a 190, stuka join the fight with the spits.  So now the 4 vs 1 dogfight is getting epic. Then here come the formation 25s.  This time guns blazing for the ho.  I add him into the equation and as I get close he bails again.  With time I succumb to the enemy. Nevertheless a good two sorties.

He bailed I got kills.  I think we both got our kicks.

[RotBaron]

rgr

don't know what the solution is, but lately I just don't even chase bombers anymore if there are any ftrs around at all

[Tilt]

I was vulching a base yesterday (ack up) and ups this a6m. I kill him and then comes a formation of b25s I get shots in and he bails formation.  Then he continues uping formations and as I get close he bails.  I rack up 22 kills and head home to land.

Next sortie I fly back to the same base.  Two spits around and the 25s are at about 3k.  I go after the 25s and he bails, 3 kills. I fight with the spits and stay close to the field.  The 25s keep uping under the fight and when I get a chance I poke at the formation 25s and he continues to bail as I get close. I rack up 14 total kills as a 190, stuka join the fight with the spits.  So now the 4 vs 1 dogfight is getting epic. Then here come the formation 25s.  This time guns blazing for the ho.  I add him into the equation and as I get close he bails again.  With time I succumb to the enemy. Nevertheless a good two sorties.

He bailed I got kills.  I think we both got our kicks.

At the time of writing the player in question seems to have bailed 74 times from 93 sorties........

You are right of course...... This player obviously gets his kicks this way.

[Charge]

What if...

if you bomb and then bail without receiving any damage yourself you get no points for bomb hits.

That would mean that if you have, prior to bomb drop, been engaged in a fight and received hits you could bail after bomb drop. But atleast you had engaged in a fight. Or after bomb drop you need to find somebody to give you damage, if you plan to bail -that is, but then again you have to give someone a chance of shooting you down or get a proxy kill of you.

You could further enhace the equation by adding the bailing over enemy territory without received damage. If the territory modifier was added you'd need to get back over friendly territory or have received damage before bailing out to receive points for bomb hits.

-C+

[Tinkles]

I'm not sure that there is any formula or method that HTC could use to punish bomb n bailers without punishing 'legit' players.

I don't like them either, I used to enjoy going after bombers. Lately though, almost every set I've encountered has bailed on me, except a select few. And those I have killed, have mostly been me in the 88, because they didn't see me coming.