All these fire sales on high-end Nvidia video cards...

[Chalenge]

Sorry, but no, what I said about SSDs is absolutely true. Most of the review sites concern themselves with how many writes an SSD can see before failure, but that is only part of the story.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Sorry, but no, what I said about SSDs is absolutely true. Most of the review sites concern themselves with how many writes an SSD can see before failure, but that is only part of the story.

No it is not true. SSD adoption is growing at a huge rate at datacenters and workstations. There is still an experiment going where they try to break SSDs by writing them to death. They have been writing now for a year or so as fast as the drive can be written to, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The weakest consumer drives in the test all went past 700 terabytes of writes. So even the weakest consumer drive takes 10 gigabytes of daily writes for 100 years. The average amount written on consumer use is 4-8 gigabytes a day typically. The stronger drives are going past petabyte writes. Yes you read correct, petabyte.

Now, considering that the average lifespan (before I retire them or give away the old box that uses them) of hdds in my use is 4-5 years, there's no way imaginable you will manage to wear your drives out.

You're just stuck with the old myths that were caused by immature firmwares that bricked some SSDs. Those problems are long gone in history.

[Gman]

So to put your story short, you saw only marginal gains in AH while investing double the money to the cards. Extremely bad use of money to me.

Wow, that's great to know, thanks!  Good thing I have lots of money I guess.  Thanks again for telling me this though, your opinion is very valued in this regard.

I guess it's fortunate that AH isn't the only game I play, and in fact wasn't the primary reason I even bought the extra card.  All Chalenge told me is that SLI would WORK with AH, and it did, which meant I wouldn't have to go and disable SLI and change a bunch of settings every time I wanted to play AH as opposed to the other games I regular play, all of which saw a huge performance gain in SLI.  You can say what you like about SLI not making a difference performance wise, and that Skuzzy told you this was the case - I can retort with thousands of screen shots before and after SLI in many, many games, as well as piles of reviews and articles with in depth comparisons and testings, which show that SLI, while perhaps not being the best in terms of $/fps, certainly increases FPS significantly in many games over the single card comparable option.  5760x1080p with a single 680 vs 2 in SLI in any of the games below all had a large, more than just noticeable difference in frames per second.

So, while buying an SLI card for AH alone would be a waste of $, I agree, not once did I say that I went SLI FOR Aces High, or that it was the only game I play, in fact, sort of the reverse.  So, again, thanks for your well considered opinion yet again Ripley.  

[Chalenge]

Evidence to the contrary:

http://www.ssdready.com/measure/?value=200&msr=Gb&submit=Estimate!

While there are a few drives listed that are capable of longer lives from a write standpoint, every drive listed is still susceptible to heat and electrostatic discharges. It's not all about writes, Ripley.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Evidence to the contrary:

http://www.ssdready.com/measure/?value=200&msr=Gb&submit=Estimate!

While there are a few drives listed that are capable of longer lives from a write standpoint, every drive listed is still susceptible to heat and electrostatic discharges. It's not all about writes, Ripley.

LOL so you think a life span of 50 years is not enough for you? According to your site, using the average writes per day of 4Gb which is about right for any home user:

Intel X25-V Value Solid State Drive - 40Gb   25.25 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 80Gb   50.5 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 160Gb   101 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 32Gb   684.93 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 64Gb   1369.86 years   intel.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 64Gb   14.03 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 128Gb   28.05 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 256Gb   56.11 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 32Gb   224.44 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 64Gb   448.88 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 128Gb   897.75 years   wdc.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT064M4SSD2) - 64Gb   25.25 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT128M4SSD2) - 128Gb   50.5 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT256M4SSD2) - 256Gb   50.5 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT512M4SSD2) - 512Gb   50.5 years   crucial.com

Keep in mind that generally the larger the SSD, the longer life it will have. So if you choose a proper sized SSD 0,5 - 1 terabytes it's going to outlive you most likely.

I like it that you conveniently 'forgot' about the mechanical wear and tear traditional drives get and their vulnerability to impacts while in operation. SSDs do not have any of those problems.

Thanks for proving against your point Chalenge.

A traditional HDD sucks royally in random read/write operations which are typical for desktop use. A Western Digital blue 1Tb drive gets 0,44Mb/s write performance (source: http://www.storagereview.com/western_digital_caviar_blue_1tb_review_wd10ealx). Multiply that by 3600 you get 1584Mb/hour. So if you do something extremely intensive with your computer that puts your hard drive to 100% load for hours, you reach the 4Gb write limit in 2,53 hours of use. How many of us does something so intensive for many hours at a time every day? None?

Lets be generous and think you'll absolutely load your drive to the max for 10 hours non-stop every day (meaning your whole computer is actually jammed at that time because the drive is max busy). You get 16Gigs/day writes.

According to your websites even the POOREST and the smallest/weakest of drives still last way past their warranty period:

Intel X25-V Value Solid State Drive - 40Gb   6.31 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 80Gb   12.62 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 160Gb   25.25 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 32Gb   171.23 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 64Gb   342.47 years   intel.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 64Gb   3.51 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 128Gb   7.01 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 256Gb   14.03 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 32Gb   56.11 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 64Gb   112.22 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 128Gb   224.44 years   wdc.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT064M4SSD2) - 64Gb   6.31 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT128M4SSD2) - 128Gb   12.62 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT256M4SSD2) - 256Gb   12.62 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT512M4SSD2) - 512Gb   12.62 years   crucial.com

SSD manufactuers are not dumb. They would not give SSDs a 5 year warranty if they thought a typical user was going to write it to death before that. How many years a traditional HDD gets? 1 years? Maybe 3 max?

[Chalenge]

Estimated life expectancy of my SSD if I treat it like I do my HDD, but optimized for SSD usage:



They give the same warranty on HDDs.

[guncrasher]

LOL so you think a life span of 50 years is not enough for you? According to your site, using the average writes per day of 4Gb which is about right for any home user:

Intel X25-V Value Solid State Drive - 40Gb   25.25 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 80Gb   50.5 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 160Gb   101 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 32Gb   684.93 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 64Gb   1369.86 years   intel.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 64Gb   14.03 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 128Gb   28.05 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 256Gb   56.11 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 32Gb   224.44 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 64Gb   448.88 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 128Gb   897.75 years   wdc.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT064M4SSD2) - 64Gb   25.25 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT128M4SSD2) - 128Gb   50.5 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT256M4SSD2) - 256Gb   50.5 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT512M4SSD2) - 512Gb   50.5 years   crucial.com

Keep in mind that generally the larger the SSD, the longer life it will have. So if you choose a proper sized SSD 0,5 - 1 terabytes it's going to outlive you most likely.

I like it that you conveniently 'forgot' about the mechanical wear and tear traditional drives get and their vulnerability to impacts while in operation. SSDs do not have any of those problems.

Thanks for proving against your point Chalenge.

A traditional HDD sucks royally in random read/write operations which are typical for desktop use. A Western Digital blue 1Tb drive gets 0,44Mb/s write performance (source: http://www.storagereview.com/western_digital_caviar_blue_1tb_review_wd10ealx). Multiply that by 3600 you get 1584Mb/hour. So if you do something extremely intensive with your computer that puts your hard drive to 100% load for hours, you reach the 4Gb write limit in 2,53 hours of use. How many of us does something so intensive for many hours at a time every day? None?

Lets be generous and think you'll absolutely load your drive to the max for 10 hours non-stop every day (meaning your whole computer is actually jammed at that time because the drive is max busy). You get 16Gigs/day writes.

According to your websites even the POOREST and the smallest/weakest of drives still last way past their warranty period:

Intel X25-V Value Solid State Drive - 40Gb   6.31 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 80Gb   12.62 years   intel.com
Intel X25-M Mainstream Solid State Drive - 160Gb   25.25 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 32Gb   171.23 years   intel.com
Intel X25-E Extreme Solid State Drive - 64Gb   342.47 years   intel.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 64Gb   3.51 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 128Gb   7.01 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconEdge Blue Solid State Drive - 256Gb   14.03 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 32Gb   56.11 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 64Gb   112.22 years   wdc.com
WD SiliconDrive N1x Solid State Drive - 128Gb   224.44 years   wdc.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT064M4SSD2) - 64Gb   6.31 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT128M4SSD2) - 128Gb   12.62 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT256M4SSD2) - 256Gb   12.62 years   crucial.com
Crucial m4 SSD (CT512M4SSD2) - 512Gb   12.62 years   crucial.com

SSD manufactuers are not dumb. They would not give SSDs a 5 year warranty if they thought a typical user was going to write it to death before that. How many years a traditional HDD gets? 1 years? Maybe 3 max?

ssd's havent been around for 50 years so 50 years life span is based on the number or writes.  which in itself is just a marketing thing.

but one question I ask and answer as best as you can.  who will still use an ssd that they bought today 50 years from today?  wont most of them end up in the trash in about 2 or 3 maybe 5 years when something better comes along?

think in terms of vc's.  they used to have a lifetime warranty.  and guess what within a few years they were obsolete.  lifetime warranty was just a marketing  scheme.


semp

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Estimated life expectancy of my SSD if I treat it like I do my HDD, but optimized for SSD usage:

(Image removed from quote.)

They give the same warranty on HDDs.

Hahahaha you should have at least hidden that 8 minute timeframe that you used to make completely manufactured stats. You copied a few movies or ISOs in 8 minutes and claim that's all you do during the whole day. Aren't you ashamed? Your HDDs can't maintain even close to 5Tb throughput a day in normal use even if you tried it.

Hilarious   Desperation at best.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

ssd's havent been around for 50 years so 50 years life span is based on the number or writes.  which in itself is just a marketing thing.

Those numbers are a mathematical estimate of endurancy according to writes/day vs writes rated for the drives. And mind you, in tests most drives have FAR exceeded their rated write endurancy. http://techreport.com/review/26523/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-casualties-on-the-way-to-a-petabyte

but one question I ask and answer as best as you can.  who will still use an ssd that they bought today 50 years from today?  wont most of them end up in the trash in about 2 or 3 maybe 5 years when something better comes along?

think in terms of vc's.  they used to have a lifetime warranty.  and guess what within a few years they were obsolete.  lifetime warranty was just a marketing  scheme.


semp

Exactly, it's even more futile to worry about write endurancy considering what you said, technology is advancing at such a pace that your old drives are going to be collecting dust on the shelf in a few years anyway.

[guncrasher]

Exactly, it's even more futile to worry about write endurancy considering what you said, technology is advancing at such a pace that your old drives are going to be collecting dust on the shelf in a few years anyway.

then why push that ssd's will last 50 years when in 2 or 3 years they will be obsolete?


semp

[MrRiplEy[H]]

then why push that ssd's will last 50 years when in 2 or 3 years they will be obsolete?


semp

Because they are built to do that?

[guncrasher]

Because they are built to do that?

you mean the marketing thing?


semp

[MrRiplEy[H]]

you mean the marketing thing?


semp

It's a tested fact that using the average writes per day of an average user, the average new SSD will last for multiple decades if not centuries. Nothing marketing about it.

What Chalenge did is a clear demonstration that he's not interested in truth, he just wants to appear being right no matter if he has to cheat. He copied 268 files with an average size of 365Mb in 8 minutes. He then used this as his 'typical HDD use' scenario. A feat his HDDs could never even achieve if they weren't sequential writes. If he posted one months statistics they would show that he probably on average writes 8-10 gigs per day maximum. Also his 'approx ssd life' indicates that his SSDs would have a puny 20Tb life lol. As tests I provided show even the cheapest drives go to 700 Tb (you know, if it was even theoretically possible for him to stay awake 24 hours a day copying 20 gigabyte files non stop with no coffee breaks). Chalenge has lost the last bit of credibility he ever had in my eyes.

[Chalenge]

An awful lot of assumptions out of you there Ripley. What I did was run the test while rendering a video, which is something I do nearly every day. So half of the day when I am not doing that the SSD would get a break, but even so if it says 4 days to EOL it will last no more than 8 days in actual usage. Meanwhile, the HDDs I use have been doing this very task for the last four years without fail.

Now I could switch SSDs and get a lot more expensive one (that I don't need) and it would die in six months instead, but it is not worth doing. Your mileage is quite different because you are not involved in any form of content creation. Good for you! It is quite a different matter for me, and whether you chose to defend SSDs or not seems to be, as you say, related to your desire to be right. Well, you can be wrong today. It's free and relatively painless and I would bet you can get over it after a few days. Now, I will go back to working on a few models, and render another video while you type another three pages of fruitless argument.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

An awful lot of assumptions out of you there Ripley. What I did was run the test while rendering a video, which is something I do nearly every day. So half of the day when I am not doing that the SSD would get a break, but even so if it says 4 days to EOL it will last no more than 8 days in actual usage. Meanwhile, the HDDs I use have been doing this very task for the last four years without fail.

Now I could switch SSDs and get a lot more expensive one (that I don't need) and it would die in six months instead, but it is not worth doing. Your mileage is quite different because you are not involved in any form of content creation. Good for you! It is quite a different matter for me, and whether you chose to defend SSDs or not seems to be, as you say, related to your desire to be right. Well, you can be wrong today. It's free and relatively painless and I would bet you can get over it after a few days. Now, I will go back to working on a few models, and render another video while you type another three pages of fruitless argument.

Quit the BS unless you're running a fully automated render farm you will not utilize your disks 100% for 24 hours a day like your 8 minute sample indicated. You got caught either cheating or failing to understand what 'average use' means. Hint: It doesn't mean a 8 minute snapshot of you rendering lol.