Look man I can't wrap my head around this (intutive track ir coding please)

[Citabria]

point of view should swivel in about a half foot orbit to automatically look around the headrest.

a single point in space upon which the point of view swivels if not snapping to saved snap views puts track ir at a huge realism and situational awareness disadvantage to the much faster and tactically advantageous but unrealistic instant snap view system.

it should be fluid and mimic real head movements and not spaz around the cockpit to preset snap views or cause neck spasms from the player contorting to get the point of view where it would naturally be just by looking around in the real world.

am i saying this in simple enough terms? put the point of view in an orbit and make it move like the human eyeball its supposed to simulate is attached to a skull that's attached to a neck that pivots to accommodate looking side to side up and down and behind?

new terrain system is awesome btw but do i really have to go back to using the immersion breaking snap view system to look around at it still?

oh fester you didnt set up your track ir profile right you dont know sht... your missing the point of what im asking for and why.

make it simple make it intuitive with code that mimics something approximating a human skeletal structure.

so much physics so much effort under the aircraft hood in the name of authenticity. is there none to spare to add some structure and limitations to where the human body can place its eyeballs point of view inside a confined cockpit space realistically and add that space in a 3d wireframe boundry map that would facilitate intuitive realistic track ir movements and reduce the unrealism of a lot of the saved snap views?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2KLyBapfTc

[Wiley]

Well, if you're having that much trouble your profile isn't set up correctly for you.

But your point about the moving like a head moves as opposed to around a central point is a good one.  I am not entirely sure the game is the one that should be doing that though.  All the game has to react to is the inputs from the trackIR.  It doesn't know how your curves are set up, how little or much motion you want a certain movement to be.

I'd say your request should be directed at NaturalPoint more than the game manufacturers.  The way the device interprets certain head movements and sends that info to the game is where it should be fixed, it seems to me.

Limiting the ability to turn the head in the cockpit sounds swell.  Except for the fact that we have no peripheral vision in game and about the best rear view you could get if you limited the facing of your point of view to how far a person can twist their neck while strapped to a seat would be about 4/8 o'clock.

The whole linda blair thing is a necessary evil.

Wiley.

[Citabria]

no its not a track ir problem its a systemic system based realism problem caused by generous limitations of where you can instantly put a virtual eyeball within the confined cockpit space with the only limitation being that space and no account given to the human body occupying that space with either snap views instant views or track ir.

track ir is a realism increase but a big combat effectiveness handicap vs an instant view setup and that is the facts of the current view system simply because the saved view system is extremely and unrealistically generous in where it allows you to cherry pick your point of view to remove the maximum number of obstacles regardless of how unlikely a human pilot flying the plane would be able to move their eyeball to every perfect no obstruction cockpit view spot.

[Randy1]

Citabria, are you saying you give a tactical advantage to the standard hat switch view setup over trackir because of the speed of a view change?

[Wiley]

track ir is a realism increase but a big combat effectiveness handicap vs an instant view setup

Agreed with the rest of this paragraph because it applies to both, but on this you're flat out wrong.  There is one thing I cannot do easily with trackIR.  The way I have mine set up, I cannot get to the absolute optimal six view in an F6f.  Other than that, I can see everywhere outside of any other plane just as well as with saved settings, and keep track of what the bandit is doing a lot easier than snap views.

Wiley.

[Zerstorer]

track ir is a realism increase but a big combat effectiveness handicap vs an instant view setup and that is the facts of the current view system simply because the saved view system is extremely and unrealistically generous in where it allows you to cherry pick your point of view to remove the maximum number of obstacles regardless of how unlikely a human pilot flying the plane would be able to move their eyeball to every perfect no obstruction cockpit view spot.

I actually agree with this statement, but I won't go back to the hat switch. 

[hitech]

If you were using the 6 axis TIR, then it would be moving your view point as you turn.

HiTech

[Wiley]

If you were using the 6 axis TIR, then it would be moving your view point as you turn.

HiTech

At the risk of poking the bear, the one point he's making is pretty valid.  The way it works now is like the camera is on a tripod, and however you move in the 6DOF space, the POV is directly centered on the mount of the tripod as it moves, right?

Is it within your control to interpret the head movements as though the tripod mount pivot point is actually at the spot where your neck joins your skull and pivots, but the POV location is actually where your eyes would be a couple inches up and forward of the pivot point as opposed to centered right on the pivot point?

So basically if you go from looking dead ahead to looking straight down, the POV would move forward and down in an arc as the ingame guy's neck bends forward, instead of rotating in place around the guy's eyeballs.

Wiley.

[FLS]

Wiley I doubt your neck swivels like a tripod to look behind you. You should notice other movement. The fact that the led clip is on one side of your head is a little odd though. I have good views with TIR but I agree with the OP that snap views are quicker while TIR is more fun.

As long as we look forward at the monitor for the rear view it will never be the same as looking behind us but any neck strain suggests that the side to side axis needs scaling.

[hitech]

At the risk of poking the bear, the one point he's making is pretty valid.  The way it works now is like the camera is on a tripod, and however you move in the 6DOF space, the POV is directly centered on the mount of the tripod as it moves, right?

His point is not valid,(The idea is correct that in real life your eyes transposes with head rotation). But they do not simply pivot with your neck. Do a simple test, look back on  your chair, you will notice you will also lean with the turn and hence the movement is not simply a neck pivot. How much you want the game to lean is completely configurable.

The way it works now is you can have your head move any where you want with a simple turn of your head when using 3 dof. I can already hear the out cry if it was changed because now to look at the edge of the back view people would have to turn and the also pan over with the arrow keys.


With 6 Deg it already will transpose your head depending on where you put the targets. So adding predefined movement to that would cause other issues such as both the game moving the head and the track Ir moving the head in conflict.

HiTech

[FLOOB]

With track ir my head does swivel to look around the headrest, but only if I uncheck Y axis. Why the y axis makes a difference with that I have no idea.

[Citabria]

His point is not valid...

HiTech

sigh

I was taught by drex how to use the instant hat view system for max lethality a long time ago. I can keep sa on everything in a dogfight with instant snap views and instantly move to any position within the 3d space of the cockpit with instant saved views.

this was great for a decade but now track ir comes along with its increased immersion. I have learned how to use it to maximum lethality and advantage in other games but I find AH track ir to be at a disadvantage vs instant saved snap views.

I find the combining of instant saved views and track ir rotation totally unacceptable and an immersion breaker due to its unrealistic jerky nature as it moves from saved view angle to next saved view angle.


I am not articulating what i am asking for either it seems no one is understanding.

I am asking for an invisible 3d wireframe that is an aproximation of the normal range of motion of where a pilot can lean and turn his head and look around to with maximum and minimum limits.

what does this mean?

I guess I am going to have to draw a picture of what I mean since no one is getting it.



im asking for the box view limit to be refined into a skeletal human range of motion that included torso leaning and neck movement and head turning to decide the minimum and maximum limits of all view systems in ah from instant snap to track ir to panning.


the results would be a somewhat 3/4 globe shaped hollow sphere that would have limits based on the direction being looked in based on field of view.

an example would be your riding in a race car on a circular track and can only look outside the passenger window... anyone grasping what I'm saying yet and why?

[The Fugitive]

 I think your going to have to show us a video of the problems you perceive in game with TrackIR.

The way I have mine set up all movement is smooth. While my head movement and the game head movement is not 1 to 1 the game head movement mimics my head movement very well. The only limit being the "space" inside the cockpit. Some planes I seem to have more room, other not so much.

[Traveler]

I don't understand the rant, I've used Track IR since it came out and discovered that I'm almost at a total loss when it crapped out that one time, had to overnight a replacement.   It works just fine out of the box.  when I need to check my 6 , which is often, I turn my head and lean a little and get full 6 views.  What's the issue? 

[FLOOB]

It sounds like he's trying to use saved (f10) snap views with trackir. It does make things jerky, I reset all my views back to default. But I didn't need them anymore anyway with trackir.