F8F-1 Standard Characteristics... A genuine monster

[BnZs]

Well all that is pretty logical and not bad ideas Sax. However, two things attract the masses I'd say: Eye candy and hot-rods. How many kills and deaths in the LWMA last year compared to 2010 again?.

I think that is a slippery slope HTC should consider falling down. The monsters can be controlled via perks and/or their own arena. Or, considering it is now 100 years since the Great War broke out, they could go the OTHER way in what they choose to add. Either way, stagnation is death.

The big problem of adding the F8F is that it starts a pretty significant slippery slope. The game is already so late-war monster focused as it is, and adding machines like the F8F, F7F, P-51H and P-63 isn't going to help.

There's a lot of other things HTC can do to improve the arena experiences. Finishing updates of the older models and plugging gaps (especially the glaring early/mid-war holes, workhorses like the Beaufighter, etc.) should be a priority over adding beasts like the Bearcat. And then the game mechanics THEMSELVES should get a looking at.

I don't mean the upcoming graphics engine upgrade, though that update is pretty long overdue.

I mean stuff like modernizing the damage modeling (IE progressive rather than "all or nothing" damage modeling, flaps that CAN actually be shot away entirely rather than just "jammed", interior components like fuel, hydraulics, cooling and oil lines, control wires, etc.). Expand the ordinance system with more types of ordinance (Tiny Tims, parafrags) and a means of enforcing more realistic ordinance loadouts (IE, I'm not aware of Corsairs taking off from carriers with 2x1000lber AND a full load of rockets) IE through limiting the available loads depending on the launch base or adding perks for the extremely heavy loadouts on fighters to give dedicated attackers like the TBM a real purpose.

The strategy system could also stand tweaking, and there's a lot that can be done with the ground and surface war (IE, adding deployable infantry, battleships, expanding the types of ships beyond the late-war US fleet, etc.) Tweak AAA and object hardness in the EW and MW arenas to better reflect those arenas. Fix the way puffy ack is handled (I'd still prefer it actually be FIRED from its source rather than randomly generating around the target, which has been demonstrated to actually work in FAVOR of large aircraft formations).

There's a LOT of things that can be done to the game without resorting to more late-war uber rides.

[Greebo]

Much as I'd love spending 10 years worth of perks flying a Bearcat in the MA I don't think it or other "borderline post-war" rides would be good for the game.

IIRC the F8F-1s deployed on carriers at the end of the war had four 0.5 in guns and the Hispano-equipped version was introduced post-war.

[Chalenge]

If the Bearcat enters the game it is all you will ever see.

[BnZs]

Much as I'd love spending 10 years worth of perks flying a Bearcat in the MA I don't think it or other "borderline post-war" rides would be good for the game.

Why not? IMO more planes=good, more planes people will actually be excited to try=great!

[BnZs]

If the Bearcat enters the game it is all you will ever see.

Yeah, the same thing will happen if the F4U-C/-4, Tempest, or 262 are ever added to the game...HEY WAIT A MINUTE...A thing called "the perk system" exists. I guess we both forgot about that for a minute.  

[Slade]

You guys are making good points on both sides of the discussion. 

I say perk it like a 262.

I think more planes is better than less.  Wow would this be fun to fly!

[bozon]

Yeah, the same thing will happen if the F4U-C/-4, Tempest, or 262 are ever added to the game...HEY WAIT A MINUTE...A thing called "the perk system" exists. I guess we both forgot about that for a minute.  

I want mirage III and F4-phantom to be added. Just perk them. The more the better no?

Actually, no. There is a limit to how far you can stretch the disparity between the planes. The F8 will be a much greater horror than any 262. The tempest and f4u-4 do not even come close. Sure, a great addition to a dedicated arena.

[caldera]

I want mirage III and F4-phantom to be added. Just perk them. The more the better no?

Actually, no. There is a limit to how far you can stretch the disparity between the planes. The F8 will be a much greater horror than any 262. The tempest and f4u-4 do not even come close. Sure, a great addition to a dedicated arena.

The version we would likely get, would come with four .50 caliber guns.  It would hardly be as disruptive as a Tempest or 262, due to the comparative lack of firepower.  It would have to do more saddling up, slowing it down and giving P-51s and such a chance to catch it and put it on the defensive. 

Fast, four cannon birds don't really need to slow down.  One shot, one kill.

[Old Sport]

...Inasmuch as I can't envision any new fighters being introduced to Aces High that would not be sub-types of existing aircraft, or hole plugging aircraft (meaning early or mid war), there's nothing exciting to look forward to. A few new bomber types, such as the A-26 or Beaufighter might be interesting, but there isn't much left there either. The Luftwobbles have the special fuels, but where are the 150 octane fuels for the Allies? What about the F7F-1, F7F-2N and P-51H? All were operational before Japan surrendered? Perk them very high. But, excluding them doesn't build excitement for current or potential players.

Going forward, it's going to take more than improved graphics to bump up interest in Aces High. Game play changes and new aircraft will also be needed to bring back former players, keep current ones and draw new people. Without some exciting change of direction, I see it as SSDD, with prettier graphics.

A controversial idea:

Twenty Years of Combat Aviation 1914-1933
1914-1918 WWI arena
1919-1926 arena
1927-1933 arena

Twenty Years of Combat Aviation 1934-1953
1934-1938 including Spanish Civil War types
1939-1945 WWII arena
1946-1949 Cold War arena
1950-1953 Korea arena

Probably the second suggestion 1934-1953 is most reasonable if the WWI arena population is any indicator of general interest in biplanes. A Cold War arena would be interesting for monster lovers, Bearcats, Fury's and Sea Fury's, etc. 

Actual combat is not required as long as the aircraft was produced in squadron strength. Aircraft in squadron strength were theoretically combat ready, even if they did not see combat. If a plane actually saw combat, even if produced in fewer numbers than squadron strength, then add it.

As far as "fantasy" goes, the MA has plenty, Corsair's shooting down P-47's etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Then after that. . .

Twenty years of Combat Aviation 1954 -1973, woohoo!

Actually I doubt if any of this will really work, but I thought it might stimulate better ideas. Have at it.

[GScholz]

No way it deserves being perked like a 262. It's awesome, but not THAT awesome.

[BnZs]

I want mirage III and F4-phantom to be added. Just perk them. The more the better no?

Because jet fighters with afterburners, missiles, complex radars and targeting avionics are clearly the same as a really hot prop fighter? You're being a bit silly Boz. I think it would make more sense for Hitech to work their way forward with more prop plane and maybe Korean-era jets than to jump right to Vietnam-ish era jet simulation, although it might be pretty cool if they someday went there. 

I already proposed a speculative "1946" arena. BUT, such an arena is probably pointless, come to think of it. If they added such, it would probably just become the arena with the vast majority of players by default, player inclinations being what they are and they'd have to control the best planes like the Bearcats through lots of perks anyway.

There is a limit to how far you can stretch the disparity between the planes.

When it comes to prop fighters, the laws of physics were already drawing that line by the end of WWII. The F8F, P-51H, Sea Fury, etc are not THAT much greater than the hottest LW fighters like the LA7, 47M, F4U4, 109K, simply because there's not all that much farther that prop planes development can go within the laws of physics. The fastest speed EVER attained by piston-engined aircraft, a highly modified, souped-up F8F, is 528mph...not all that much faster than the 480-490 attributed to the fastest WWII fighters, all things considered.

The F8 will be a much greater horror than any 262.

The version of the F8F we are most likely to get would have a top speed of 421 mph, while the 262 can fly level at speeds that most prop fighters can barely dive to without entering compression. And the quad 30MMs, while being hard to use against fighters, shred bomber formations. So huh?????

The tempest and f4u-4 do not even come close. Sure, a great addition to a dedicated arena.

Really? Both of them have a max speed higher than that of the Bearcat, and the Tempest has 4xHizookas against the 4x.50s available on the F8F-1 we are most likely to get.

[Saxman]

Per WW, That 421mph was at sea level.

[BnZs]

Per WW, That 421mph was at sea level.

I've read F8F specifications before, and 421 is often given as the *max speed* for the F8F-1 at about 19K in diverse places, such as this
http://www.aviation-history.com/grumman/f8f.html

But indeed, converting the SL speed shown on Widewing's document from 366 *knots* to MPH yields 421 mph on the deck, which is almost hard to believe. I'm half wondering if the speed were measured in MPH and listing them in knots on this document was an oversight.

[Lusche]

Hm. On that document, max level speed for the F8F at altitude is only about 7mph faster than on the deck...

[BnZs]

Hm. On that document, max level speed for the F8F at altitude is only about 7mph faster than on the deck...

Yes, I noted that oddity. 372knots=~430mph at 18,000, good for but not amazing by WWII standards. Nowhere near as incredible as attaining 421 at SL.

Most planes seem to gain a lot more than that by getting nearly 20,000 feet higher.