F8F-1 Standard Characteristics... A genuine monster

[BnZs]

Another question:

Climbing-Dividing the horsepower given for the F8F-1 (2,750) by the loaded weight of 9,600 pounds yields a ratio of .29 horsepower per pound.

By comparison, the SpitXIV's Gryphon produces 2,050 HP for a 6700 pound airplane. That yields a power/weight ratio right at .3 horsepower per pound. How then does the Bearcat out-climb the SpitXIV?

[Karnak]

You should not accuse me of "100% bullcrap" while making a statement that shows you to be unfamiliar with your charts.

I made my comment after looking at that exact chart, and I stand by it.  For most of the AH combat altitudes they are essentially the same speed.  WEP favors the 190 by a wide margin.

Another question:

Climbing-Dividing the horsepower given for the F8F-1 (2,750) by the loaded weight of 9,600 pounds yields a ratio of .29 horsepower per pound.

By comparison, the SpitXIV's Gryphon produces 2,050 HP for a 6700 pound airplane. That yields a power/weight ratio right at .3 horsepower per pound. How then does the Bearcat out-climb the SpitXIV?

Climb test here:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14climbchart.jpg
shows the Spitfire XIV at 8,500lbs, not 6,700lbs.  

Honestly, 6,700lbs looks like the empty weight for a Mk IX perhaps, maybe the normal load for a Mk V.

[Widewing]

Question on turning: Wik lists a loaded weight for the Bearcat of 9,600 pounds, and a wing area of 244 square feet. That works out to a wing-loading of 39.3 pounds per square foot. This is not extraordinarily light for a late war piston fighter. By comparison from the same source, the F4U-4 has a wing area of 314 square feet, loaded weight of 12,405. That works out to 39.5 pounds per square foot. How then, can the F8F be expected to out-turn everything?

I don't think it can out-turn everything in the sense of minimum turn radius.

A Navy document compared all late war fighters against the Ki-61. The F8F-1 and F7F-1 were added to the test. However, these aircraft were flown not using combat power (WEP). So keep that in mind. This document places the F8F-1 in between the FM-2 and F6F-5 in turn radius.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Tony-I.pdf

Despite the above, the F8F-1's true advantage is in its ability to maintain E better than any other fighter. It's tremendous excess power means that it will dominate tighter turning fighters, because it utterly owns the vertical.

[BnZs]

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14climbchart.jpg
shows the Spitfire XIV at 8,500lbs, not 6,700lbs.  

You are correct sir. Me culpa.

As to the A5 versus Spixteen, the A5 has virtually no chance in a fight against a competently driven Spixteen. The Spixteen's higher acceleration and better energy retention means the A5 cannot expect to engage and then be able to disengage, much less get away if a Spixteen is diving on it with alt.

But yes, the F8F would definitely demand a very high perk price. What can I say, when American engineers set out to apply the same design philosophy as the La7, WOWZERS. 

[bozon]

BnZ, the bearcat will have next to bill value in attracting new players. It is not famous as the mustang or the spitfire (most new player will probably not know what is an F8f) and the need to perk it high means the new players cannot fly it anyway.

[Arlo]

And by the way, I do not think that at this point, any reasonable number of players would be attracted to AH just because plane X or Y would had been added. I have not seen any surge in players because of the additions in the past years, not even when the B-29 was added (at that point IIRC AH was the only combat sim where you couzld actively fly one?).

Spanish Civil War    ....    arena. 

[glzsqd]

Spanish Civil War    ....    arena. 

(Image removed from quote.)

oh  my god that would be so cool.


He111s would be the B29s of that arena, and the i16 the tempest.

[BnZs]

BnZ, the bearcat will have next to bill value in attracting new players. It is not famous as the mustang or the spitfire (most new player will probably not know what is an F8f) and the need to perk it high means the new players cannot fly it anyway.

The average Joe has not heard of the F8F, you are correct, but the kind of person who might sign up for this game is likely to have heard of and be interested in the Bearcat and other other slightly-post war types, as they were the hottest piston engine fighters ever built.

[glzsqd]

But yes, the F8F would definitely demand a very high perk price. What can I say, when American engineers set out to apply the same design philosophy as the La7, WOWZERS.  

Actually the F8F was heavily influenced by Kurt Tank. Many of the things that made the 190s so revolutionary are found in the Bearcat. Big reason why its loved by warbird enthusiasts.  The mating of Kurt tanks revolutionary approach to aircraft design, and the proven evolutionary methods that made Grumman so sucessful.

[Arlo]

The average Joe has not heard of the F8F, you are correct, but the kind of person who might sign up for this game is likely to have heard of and be interested in the Bearcat and other other slightly-post war types, as they were the hottest piston engine fighters ever built.

1946 area. However, if it is considered evidence, the LW is more popular then the MW and the EW. 1946 will draw away from LW.

And .... 'slightly' is as post war as the stealth fighter is. make exceptions and you're really advocating a whole new game. Lets just ask HT to model every aircraft, ship and tank ever conceived from 1900 to now and put it all in one arena.

[BnZs]

Actually the F8F was heavily influenced by Kurt Tank. Many of the things that made the 190s so revolutionary are found in the Bearcat. Big reason why its loved by warbird enthusiasts.  The mating of Kurt tanks revolutionary approach to aircraft design, and the proven evolutionary methods that made Grumman so sucessful.

I understand this, but I was referring to the "little airplane as possible attached to as big a radial engine as possible" concept, of which the La7 seems like the purest example we have.

[BnZs]

1946 area. However, if it is considered evidence, the LW is more popular then the MW and the EW. 1946 will draw away from LW.

And .... 'slightly' is as post war as the stealth fighter is. make exceptions and you're really advocating a whole new game. Lets just ask HT to model every aircraft, ship and tank ever conceived from 1900 to now and put it all in one arena.

We already have advanced prop fighters and an early jet, so the F8F or P-80 wouldn't be qualitatively different the way a modern jet would be.

[BnZs]

I would like to experience this as modeled by HTC. Perk it 1,000 points if needed.

http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepBearcat.html

[Arlo]

We already have advanced prop fighters and an early jet, so the F8F or P-80 wouldn't be qualitatively different the way a modern jet would be.

You're not getting me. There is no 'slightly' post-war. It's either post-war or it isn't. There's either a set qualifier or there isn't. Once you cross the line, why even have different arenas for different eras, at all?

[BnZs]

You don't think there is a difference between adding a propeller-driven fighter that actually flew over the peace signing and the stealth fighter you mentioned? That's not very reasonable.