Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery

[craz07]

oh no doubt, but i just thought there would be a greater turning margin between the two, not the case sadly.. lol

[DmonSlyr]

oh no doubt, but i just thought there would be a greater turning margin between the two, not the case sadly.. lol

La7 can turn quite well. Don't underestimate it.

Really intruely in a flat turn like that. You need try to get the nose down with rudder and then attempt to pull a verticle loop. Flat turns are incredibly dangerous to get in.

[Slash27]

I don't think Slash was in disagreement about the KI, think he was just thinking what a lot are already thinking...what is a scrub pilot like Fulcrum bragging about 4 kills for?

Basically. This is a thinly veiled self promotion campaign, hence the stupid comment directed you.

[Zoney]

Fulcrum, did you used to be in the AK's?  Seems like I remember you in the AK's when I flew with them.

[Zerstorer]

Basically. This is a thinly veiled self promotion campaign, hence the stupid comment directed you.

  How so?  

I simply pointed out what the data says, stated my postion, added some personal conclusions then responsed to rebuttals to defend that position and those conclusions.  It's also what Violator and many others did as well.  

What you (and Junky) attempted with your posts was a bit different.  You both attempted to introduce argumentum ad hominem:

"..a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument "*

It's a rather common tactic, typically employed by the side losing a debate.


 



* Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem.

[Zerstorer]

Fulcrum, did you used to be in the AK's?  Seems like I remember you in the AK's when I flew with them.

You were not with the AKs when I flew with them, Zoney.  But yes, I did fly with them for a while.  Why?

[JunkyII]

How so?  

I simply pointed out what the data says, stated my postion, added some personal conclusions then responsed to rebuttals to defend that position and those conclusions.  It's also what Violator and many others did as well.  

What you (and Junky) attempted with your posts was a bit different.  You both attempted to introduce argumentum ad hominem:

"..a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument "*

It's a rather common tactic, typically employed by the side losing a debate.


 



* Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem.

scrub has to mean your a bad pilot? No your a decent stick who just hides behind others, never fights unless at the advantage...I'm saying your flying style is weak, I've been in the DA with you I know your an OK stick...you just fly lame but talk huge game.

Skyrr, 7 rounds...you pick first ride. 25% fuel. Ammo dump at pilots discretion,  deck merge. Loser picks next rounds plane. Sound good?

[Slash27]

It's a rather common tactic, typically employed by the side losing a debate.

I wasn't debating.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derp

[Zoney]

You were not with the AKs when I flew with them, Zoney.  But yes, I did fly with them for a while.  Why?

I was only wondering, I thought we might have fought together with them, thank you.  ( I have no ulterior motives sir, just curious )   

[Zerstorer]

I wasn't debating.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derp

Actually, you were.  Or rather, you were attempting to support one side of a debate in progress through argumentum ad hominem.  

Thanks for the link, but I'm aware of the definition for the term "derp".

[Zerstorer]

I was only wondering, I thought we might have fought together with them, thank you.  ( I have no ulterior motives sir, just curious )   

No worries, sir.  None were assumed.   

[iKo]

Fight the plane, not the pilot.

I hope they fight the plane more then the pilot and that's why I fly the Mossie a lot and cobia the A20, Fight the plane and you will get killed more times then not with the right pilot.
Its mostly about the pilot very little about the plane.

Example: you can fly a new guy in to the ground or get him to lawn dart almost every time 8)
 

[Zerstorer]

I hope they fight the plane more then the pilot and that's why I fly the Mossie a lot and cobia the A20, Fight the plane and you will get killed more times then not with the right pilot.
Its mostly about the pilot very little about the plane.

Example: you can fly a new guy in to the ground or get him to lawn dart almost every time 8)
 

I kinda agree with iKo on this one...but I am admittedly somewhat biased. 

[ink]

Idk man, it is a very close fight. You can hover turn the F4U so  nicely and you'd be very suprised how well it can climb strait up. Plus if the ki grabs your 6 , if there is room to dive you can pull a reversal maneuver while the K struggles to find lift. The thing is, most don't really fly it up to par in 1v1 fights in the MA.

As you all were saying, it does to an extent come down to the pilot.  But they each have advantages which can become costly if you cross the gun path.
 

It's a great plane for defense. It can't dive or really run away so that's a huuuggee disadvantage in this game. When you get ganged by 190Ds all afternoon it makes the plane tough to be really successful in.

The spit 16 and spit 8 completely destroy the KI84 at everything.

I agree with your opinion on the spits...after flying the Ki.... the spits is far more responsive......

but I still disagree with the F4U (any of them)equal pilots same E at the start...KI wins.

it can slow down and pick up speed faster.... climbs WAY better after the fights gotten slow...if the F4 tries to keep his E...the KI can hide massive E...if it starts out relative even E states...it can play the E game just fine...
now if say you get a guy who is an absolute master of the F4U inside and out...then yes it is a very tough fight...I mean come on man the thing has a barn door for a rudder....

of course this is just my opinion, I have fought many F4us and they dont give me trouble  I find someone who is a true dogfighter and knows that plane.....


and of course then there are  the guys that are just natural... have great timing...know ACM...and are great shots....then it dont matter what plane they are in...they give you a run.....

those are the guys I loved fighting.

unless their dicks then they can just pissoff. 

[Skyyr]

I kinda agree with iKo on this one...but I am admittedly somewhat biased.  

By fighting the pilot, you're trying to second-guess what another unpredictable human is planning on doing. Ergo, you'll win some, but you'll also lose when you fail to predict correctly. It's almost laughable when people come in and say "Oh! Oh! This is XYZ pilot! They usually pull this move, so I'll be ready for it!" No flying should ever be based on a pilot - your maneuvers should be based only on your aircraft, the enemy's aircraft, the relative E-state between the two of them, and what is actively going on at the time you fight them.

If you read Shaw's book, note how many sections or chapters talk about changing tactics based on who you're fighting (answer: 0). You should always assume your opponent is perfect and is going to fly perfectly. What an opponent is capable of as an individual should have no bearing on what you are actually doing - all that matters is what their plane is capable of, when flown correctly. If a pilot adjusts their flying based on who they're fighting, then they have some deep-seated deficiencies when it comes to ACM.

By fighting the plane instead, you base your fighting on what the enemy's plane is capable of. If your plane can't turn right and I force a right turn and you attempt to turn with me, you're going to lose. Likewise, if your plane turns better than mine, but mine has better power-loading, I'm going to go vertical every time I can. It doesn't matter if I'm better at turning my plane better than you can turn yours, because by turning it I'm allowing you a chance to capitalize on my mistake. Fight what the plane is capable of in a perfect environment and it won't matter who the pilot is.

Regardless of how good the pilot is, they cannot do what the plane is incapable of doing. Ergo, fighting the plane is the most effective means of killing the opponent quickly.