Author Topic: American Sniper  (Read 10098 times)

Offline Shamus

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2015, 10:10:14 AM »
Or you can include a bibliography, that will cover it.
one of the cats

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Offline Widewing

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2015, 01:05:49 PM »
Perhaps you could use facts to support your position?

He can't. Why? Because he has nothing to contribute. No facts. His poorly considered comment is based upon the thought process that dispelling falsehoods falls under that definition. Thus, anyone calling BS is exercising cognitive dissonance.

Claim: Kyle pocketed all book royalties from American Sniper.
Truth: Most of the royalties are in an account, earning interest, according to the lawyers. Moreover, almost half of the royalties from his story have been earned after his death. Kyle's estate is receiving royalties from Kyle's other book and the film.

Claim: Kyle said he shot 30 civilians from the Superdome roof.
Truth: Kyle said no such thing. He said he had heard the story of SEALS being involved and was bothered by it. Taya Kyle can prove Kyle was not in New Orleans at the time. So can the Navy.

Claim: Kyle's confirmed kill total is in question.
Truth: It is not. The Navy credits him with 162.

Claim: Kyle lied that he punched Jesse Ventura in the face.
Truth: Still in litigation. Very well could be a tall tale. Defendant is dead and cannot testify in court. Ventura doesn't deny being present. Initially didn't deny (claiming he had no comment, when asked) stating what supposedly led to Kyle claiming to have punched him for, although he now claims he never said it. I like Kyle, but he's no angel. If he lied and did so for profit, and it can be established as such (with real proof, not gross error by the original defense lawyers), then there's a penalty to pay. Justice for all... Yet, it's amazing that people will ignore massive lies by leading politicians, but despise Kyle. It's obvious that some people despise Kyle for reasons other than the Ventura issue.

It seems to me that SysError believes that attempting to correct falsehoods about Kyle falls under the theory of cognitive dissonance... That thinking qualifies as cognitive dissonance on its own...

Another Truth: Ventura's career is a confirmed kill.

While previously tolerated by the SEAL community, he is now a pariah. Disowned. Ventura claims this is Kyle's fault. In reality, it was just the last straw of many. Ventura makes the following claim: "I was told by a SEAL that if I showed up at any SEAL event, even at a bar frequented by SEALs, I would be asked to leave". According to Marcus Luttrell, Ventura was told something a bit less gracious, such that "if he walks in, he will be asked to walk out. If he doesn't walk out, he will be carried out."

Ventura is no stranger to lawsuits. This appears to be how he's earned much of his income at times. He's now suing Kyle's publisher, which clearly indicates that restoring his dubious reputation was really an excuse to grab for the $$$$. In Ventura's defense, he dug himself a hole. His lawyers will get a significant percentage of the award. He doesn't want to pay them out of his pocket, and cannot be expected to. Thus, he cannot refuse the award. Now, seeing a potential payday on his horizon, he's doubled down and sued the publisher. This one he's unlikely to win, but there's no financial risk for him.

For the appeal of original decision, the Kyle estate has far better legal representation, and rumor is that they won't have to pay a dime for it. High power law firms were itching for the opportunity, as publicity on that level can't be bought at any price.

The issue is for many, and will continue to be, is Ventura someone they could believe? I'd argue no. I'd argue that he's obviously paranoid, and at least one McNugget short of a Happy Meal. Yet, even screwballs can find some truth within their insanity. He's moved to Mexico, and keeps moving around "so the drones can't find him"....
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jesse-ventura-freaks-out-cnbc-im-off-the-grid-so-drones-cant-find-me/

I suppose his paranoia breeds fear, as he's managed to become hated by the one of the most technologically advanced and lethal spec ops organizations on earth.... ;)

Of course, he has nothing to worry about. They'll just wait for the inevitable outcome of more than a decade of steroid abuse to take its course, and be content to pay their respects at that later time, likely via a common biological function.



My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline zack1234

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2015, 03:24:51 AM »
So this bloke shot scum?

If he did well done  :old:
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2015, 10:45:11 AM »
widewing, while I dont really know if kyle's wife has the money in a checking account earning interest or not I dont really care.  the truth is that even a paralegal knows how to set up a non-profit and give all the money away tax free.  heck I am not a paralegal and even I can do a 1/2 donut google search and find out how to set up a non profit.  imagine her with all the attorneys she has, can do.

I dont buy the "due to tax laws" excuse.  Whether she keeps it or not it's really her money and she can do what she wants with it as she pleases.  If she wants to keep it to raise her family then I am all for it.  if she wants to give it to charity then it's awesome of her. 

but it's the excuse given that I dont buy.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Widewing

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2015, 11:13:08 AM »
widewing, while I dont really know if kyle's wife has the money in a checking account earning interest or not I dont really care.  the truth is that even a paralegal knows how to set up a non-profit and give all the money away tax free.  heck I am not a paralegal and even I can do a 1/2 donut google search and find out how to set up a non profit.  imagine her with all the attorneys she has, can do.

I dont buy the "due to tax laws" excuse.  Whether she keeps it or not it's really her money and she can do what she wants with it as she pleases.  If she wants to keep it to raise her family then I am all for it.  if she wants to give it to charity then it's awesome of her. 

but it's the excuse given that I dont buy.


semp

I agree with you. Anyone can set up a non-profit with minimal effort. After her husband was dead, she finally did. However, I'm sure she did so in response to exactly what you are saying. If you are claiming that all profits are going to a charity, then you should make the effort to set up 501c3. If you delay, folks will begin to question you, and they did just that.

The Chris Kyle Frog Foundation financial records are open to public, so anyone who wants can see how much has been spent. That doesn't tell us much. I'm sure a large amount is on hold pending the outcome of the appeal.

I think that Taya Kyle depends on others to manage her funds. Obviously, she had a lot to cope with when her husband was murdered. Like you, I don't have a problem should she decide to keep a significant amount of the royalties. She lost her source of future income, and she must think about her kids and home first.
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Widewing

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Offline gblade30

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Offline Scherf

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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #82 on: February 02, 2015, 04:03:32 PM »
Just saw it yesterday, very compelling.

Offline Widewing

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2015, 05:33:51 PM »
http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/news/national/briton-is-world-s-deadliest-sniper-1-7083571

says it all

It doesn't say much, and they can't get simple facts right.

"The Sun said the Briton, who has not been named, had served in the Royal Navy's elite unit for more than a decade and recorded most of his 173 confirmed kills during tours of Afghanistan in 2006/7, having also served in Iraq."

He doesn't have a name and served in an unnamed elite Navy unit

So, this guy got 173 in two short tours? Nonsense, unless he was shooting civilians.

Some things they got wrong... Kyle is credited with 162 confirmed of 255 claimed, not 160. Many could not be confirmed, but were just as dead.

The article claimed that the film was nominated for 2 Oscars.... It has been nominated for 6 Oscars....

Oh yeah, they offered rock solid evidence..... LOLOLOL
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2015, 08:36:48 AM »
I hope Taya keeps every dime. And she owes nobody any explanation why, she has a fatherless child to raise. One that had so far been raised on a military paycheck.

Its not Taya's responsibility to get help for these stricken Vets. Its ours!

Ive tried to be generous with friends, now ex-friends, with money when they needed help. In the end they all screw you. "Money" and the pursuit of it does something to poison the soul and almost always makes a person strip themselves of all honor and self respect. http://www.westernjournalism.com/scumbag-ex-navy-seal-rips-off-11-fellow-navy-seals-fund-luxurious-lifestyle/#u8LpgZqAIqhR0p51.97 Even among elite warriors.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline SysError

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2015, 10:20:04 AM »
This really has been more entertaining than I originally thought it could be.  I'm not going correct your errors, ("Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" Napoleon), but I do have a few thoughts which, against my better judgment, I shall offer in a sprint of a revered friendship to a fellow Aces Higher.  (And for the record I do not consider you an “enemy”.  I decide to provide you with an accurate quote so as to not make you the victim of “lousy reporting”.  Let me suggest the word adversary or sparring partner.)  

... Thus, anyone calling BS is exercising cognitive dissonance.

I would suggest you look this term up.  It is a real term used by Psychologists, although I think that currently a more sharply defined and accepted term is motivated reasoning.  Either way, I think that for the general public the terms are interchangeable.

One (and by no means the only) interesting idea/observation that has come up in the field of Psychology in the past several years is the fact that a certain clearly defined sub-set of subjects, when confronted with facts that challenge(s) the validity of emotional held belief(s), dig in further and deeper into their original belief.  It would be like if you believed that the moon landings were actually taped on a set in LA and that with every piece of information that proved the opposite - you become more and more convinced that a studio set actually was used.

BTW: We are not talking about a handful guys with aluminum hats.  We are talking about a large population set.

Your posts are a good example of someone who behaves that way.  The recipe (or the main one anyway) is very simple:

Trash the authority (source) of the argument.
Trash the logic of the argument (optional)
Claim yourself or others as real experts and judger of facts.

If you would like to understand what you are doing you will have to read a book or two.

Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts BY Carol Tavris and, Elliot Aronson

and

The case for motivated reasoning. by Kunda, Ziva  available at the web site of the American Psychological Association at:
  http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/108/3/480/


My hope is that someday that the fruit of all this clinical and academic research is reduced to a handful of bumper sticks.  That way animated individuals who conduct most of their social research while driving to work on the interstate will become better informed members of society.  (It will save them from having to read a book!)

But I digress.  

I originally was just going to let your post go, but then I thought about the 501c3 stuff.  I have helped non-profits file 990 before, so I kind of know how to read them and I thought lets go read it.  It is not there.  OK, looks as if the foundation was just set up, they have time.  Then I thought wait, where did all this stuff about money being tucked away for tax purposes come from and why a 501c3?  There are a number of different types of non-profits and many of them are easier to set up and run (from an IRS reporting perceptive).  And she did it as a foundation (private I assume).  Ah.  

Well boys and girls gather round for just a few basic facts about 501c3 and private foundations.  The main (and some would say the ONLY) reason to set up a 501c3 is to provide the donor of a gift, usually of cash and certain goods and services, a means getting a tax break, subject to certain limitations having to do with the circumstances of the donor.  (Depending on how they are classified, the non-profit may not have to pay any or most federal and usually state taxes.) Private foundations have a little twist; funding is usually from one source and under IRS rules the foundation must give away a minimum percentage (5% I think) of its assets ever year.

So with that as background:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2

“And now for the kicker: It isn’t true. Out of the staggering $3 million that American Sniper collected in royalties for Kyle, only $52,000 actually went to the families of fallen servicemen. (Rather than 100 percent of the proceeds, as the public was led to believe, try 2 percent!) While Kyle’s widow claimed, in her testimony, that they never intended to profit from the book, and “wanted” to donate the money to other veterans, she said they were weren’t able to because of — get this! — “gift-tax laws that prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year.”

The National Review, for those of you who do not know, is a conservative right wing magazine started by William Buckley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley%2C_Jr.  I, and others, believe that no other publication did more to define modern day conservatism in America than the National Review.  (While many disagreed with Buckley and his view points, no one that I know of ever accused Buckley of lying.  Not lying, now there is a conservative and liberal idea that we all should support and promote!)

So…

During the Jesse Ventura trail, Taya Kyle under oath, stated that she had been instructed by her lawyers she was “prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year”

It is my understanding that she gave her testimony while producing a voluminous amount of tears.

Not true. Tax laws for a foundation require that a MINIMUM of 5% the foundation’s assets have to be donated every year.  Foundations can give as much as they have.  However, foundations can count Administrative costs as part of the 5%.  So, not too infrequently you find a private foundation stacked with family members with titles such as Vice-President of Knowledge and a salary and expense account to match.  (BTW: The IRS deals with this issue all the time and they have guidelines for what are reasonable administrative costs.  Given the fact that there was more than one gift (two!), at an exact amount ($26k), you got to wonder what is going on there.)

BTW: as concerned as you are about the family, if you set up a foundation because all you want to do is to avoid paying taxes, then there is a good chance that you will be fined by the IRS and a small chance that you will end up in jail.

Non-Profits have to be set up and run to support a public good mission.

Maybe you could let Kyle’s widow know that she was in error that she can indeed meet her promise of giving 100% of the proceeds to families of fallen servicemen.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/07/09/chris-kyle-video-deposition-to-be-played-in-american-sniper-trial/

I’ve often believed that if you want to understand America you can read the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gaithersburg Address and all of the Constitutional Amendments, and you will not really get it until you dig into the US Tax Code, Regulations and Official Guidance.  http://www.irs.gov/Tax-Professionals/Tax-Code,-Regulations-and-Official-Guidance.

Of course there are a couple of other issues out there and open for debate. But the one fact that we now know is that Kyle is a liar.  A court of law says so.

I understand why this would brother some people immensely.  If he lied about a stupid bar fight, what else did he lie about?  Were all of his 200+ kills (162 confirmed), to use his words “damn savages”.   Were there innocents that he killed?  I do not know, but we have the word of a liar and … ah…well just the word of a liar.


On another issue, Americans across the country are reporting a significant occurrence of acts of intimidation and suggested acts of violence on their persons by patrons of the movie.  I hope that we can all agree that such behavior is despicable and should not be tolerated by anyone.

Another issue that really makes me sick in the gut is the host of so called Veteran Charities that prey “on the public's patriotism and generosity, promising assistance to veterans while lining their own pockets”.  According to Charity Watch Some of the worst are:

AMVETS
Military Order of the Purple Heart Service Foundation
Paralyzed Veterans of America
Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S

Charity Watch, http://www.charitywatch.org/, tries to stay on top of the issue and publishes a guide for donors.  http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/donors_guide_to_serving_veterans.html


I found this from a few years ago.  Not much has changed.  Only more of these scam tax dodging profiteers have emerged.  I guess that not too many of them went to Jail….

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/veterans-charity-fraud_n_886259.html

Very very sad.


« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 10:21:37 AM by SysError »
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Offline Swoop

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2015, 10:25:44 AM »
He doesn't have a name and served in an unnamed elite Navy unit

Psst, Royal Marine Commandos. Says it in the title.


Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2015, 10:34:22 AM »
I find this argument over kills tedious. The movie is not about the kills. And even if it was, this brit could have a million kills and still wouldn't be the most lethal sniper in American history, which is the only claim the movie makes.
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2015, 11:07:21 AM »
Blah, blah, blah, 
insert arrogant pretentious drivel here
Very very sad.

Offline SysError

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Re: American Sniper
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2015, 11:19:02 AM »
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SysError

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