F15 Down

[GScholz]

The F-15 is a sitting duck to modern AA systems. It has the RCS of a bus and you cant make a fighter able to fly faster or higher then an AA missile. Even the proposed Silent Eagle is not in the class of the F-35. Not even close, to build a stealth airplane you have to build it from the start. The F-15 is basically a 1970's design. People cant seem to understand an airplane the enemy doesnt know is there is far better then an airplane the enemy DOES know is there no matter the other performance parameters.

[bozon]

The F-15 is a sitting duck to modern AA systems. It has the RCS of a bus and you cant make a fighter able to fly faster or higher then an AA missile. Even the proposed Silent Eagle is not in the class of the F-35. Not even close, to build a stealth airplane you have to build it from the start. The F-15 is basically a 1970's design. People cant seem to understand an airplane the enemy doesnt know is there is far better then an airplane the enemy DOES know is there no matter the other performance parameters.

A small RCS is not the only way to fool a radar and a small RCS will not always save you. In any case, nearly all that the F-15 will not be able to do, the F35 will not be able to do either, for more money.

[DaveBB]

An anti-radiation missile is a pretty good way to shut down a SAM site.  In 1999, F-14s defeated multiple SAMs during the Serbian air war by simply running them out of energy.  So, (1) ECM and anti-radiation missiles can be as effective or more than stealth, and (2) missiles have a limited amount of fuel and U.S. teen series fighters have defeated them simply by flying fast.

[Rich46yo]

An anti-radiation missile is a pretty good way to shut down a SAM site.  In 1999, F-14s defeated multiple SAMs during the Serbian air war by simply running them out of energy.  So, (1) ECM and anti-radiation missiles can be as effective or more than stealth, and (2) missiles have a limited amount of fuel and U.S. teen series fighters have defeated them simply by flying fast.

This isnt 1999. That was, like, 15 years ago in a country that didnt have modern SAMs even then.

Aircraft today have to deal with S300/S400 SAM level threats. Try running from them in an F-15.

Your entire premise makes no sense whatsoever. Without question SAMs are the biggest threat to combat aircraft and 40 yo airframe designs simply wont survive in modern SAM environments.

[Bodhi]

Rich, the F-35 is living off of a lot of claims.  Those claims are becoming increasingly less reliable as time goes on.  For the cost that the F-35 is now expected to hit, the F-22B could have been finalized and fielded.  The F-35 is never going to be able to compete on the level it claimed from the beginning.  As was previously discussed, there are ways around attacking without stealth, and it is one of the main reasons the Growler exists for.  You claim the F-15 Silent Eagle can't compete with the F-35, but the F-35 can't seem to even remain in service, let alone meet any goals in a timely manner or in anyway close to expectations.

Face it, the F-35 was over hyped, under delivered, and ridiculously over cost. 

[GScholz]

Those claims are becoming increasingly less reliable as time goes on...

Based on what? I'm sorry but I'm not going to take your word over the pilots and crews working with the F-35 now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wJ_Ffi2KFE



Like the wars of the future (and even now) F-35 is not about speed or maneuverability, although it has those qualities in adequate quantities; it's about stealth and sensor fusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZtcyaTi8c4

Like he says, the job of a fighter pilot these days and in the future is no longer about flying the airplane; they're system operators trying to make the most out of their system. One day down the line, beyond the F-35, the pilot will no longer be a part of the system.

[Vraciu]

Don't worry, we won't be building more of one of the best fighters ever made.  Instead we will be pinning it all on that awesome, superior replacement the, F-35.  The plane that can't carry the same weight, fly the same distance, or fight off enemy like it's "long in the tooth" precursor.

The F-4 is a better plane than the Joint Strike Failure.

[Vraciu]

The F-15 is a sitting duck to modern AA systems. It has the RCS of a bus and you cant make a fighter able to fly faster or higher then an AA missile. Even the proposed Silent Eagle is not in the class of the F-35. Not even close, to build a stealth airplane you have to build it from the start. The F-15 is basically a 1970's design. People cant seem to understand an airplane the enemy doesnt know is there is far better then an airplane the enemy DOES know is there no matter the other performance parameters.

The F-15 brings value to the fight the JSF can only dream of.  It can also extend and dictate the fight on at least even terms.   The JSF has front-aspect-only stealth and only in a limited number of bands.   It cannot run.  It cannot hide.  It cannot fight.   It has a blowtorch that can be seen forever and will be easy meat for current threats--nevermind emerging ones like PAK-FA.

We need more F-22s not Joint Strike Failures.   The Marines with their blind loyalty to VTOL (something the F-35 will never be able to do with any decent payload) is the poison pill that ruined this airplane.

[GScholz]

Amazing how some people think they actually know the capabilities of the F-35...

[Vraciu]

Amazing how some people think they actually know the capabilities of the F-35...

What capabilities?   It can't even fly in IMC.   It is breaking engine casings and fan blades despite being restricted to 3.5 Gs (or perhaps less).   It has no range.  It is a POS.

It requires a ridiculous pad assembly for VTOL ops (and the amount of fuel it burns per sortie is insane for almost no payload).  Anyone consider how to deploy those to a forward area?   The Marines sure haven't.

It can't trap.  It doesn't meet the sink rate requirements to land on the boat.  The maintenance on the RAM will be utterly impossible to manage on a CVN. Utterly hopeless.


You need to pay attention.

[Someguy63]

What capabilities?   It can't even fly in IMC.   It is breaking engine casings and fan blades despite being restricted to 3.5 Gs (or perhaps less).   It has no range.  It is a POS.

It requires a ridiculous pad assembly for VTOL ops (and the amount of fuel it burns per sortie is insane for almost no payload).  Anyone consider how to deploy those to a forward area?   The Marines sure haven't.

It can't trap.  It doesn't meet the sink rate requirements to land on the boat.  The maintenance on the RAM will be utterly impossible to manage on a CVN. Utterly hopeless.


You need to pay attention.

They can make improvements.

They're not done with it they're farther ahead of the public than people think in its development.

[Zoney]

the F35 looked like it was flying pretty good last weekend at the Miramar Airshow.  It hovered right in front of me and then slowly turned unitl it was nose on, then landed.  Wow, just Wow, one scaring looking piece of technology.

[Vraciu]

They can make improvements.

They're not done with it they're farther ahead of the public than people think in its development.

Yeah right.

Further along meaning they're only WAY WAY behind.

Got news for ya', bud, there is something called PHYSICS.   The JSF will never overcome THAT.   

[Vraciu]

the F35 looked like it was flying pretty good last weekend at the Miramar Airshow.  It hovered right in front of me and then slowly turned unitl it was nose on, then landed.  Wow, just Wow, one scaring looking piece of technology.

Low fuel load.  No weapons.   

[Someguy63]

Yeah right.

Further along meaning they're only WAY WAY behind.

Got news for ya', bud, there is something called PHYSICS.   The JSF will never overcome THAT.

Go develop one.