Author Topic: Star Citizen  (Read 2092 times)

Offline Saxman

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2014, 08:11:17 AM »
Anyone played the Arena Commander demo/beta yet? Not all of the hardware support is in yet (Track IR support is not yet available, and there's no default profile for CH HOTAS setups yet), and I spent most of what little time I had to play it working on mapping my controllers and didn't do much more than tool around for a bit in the free flight mode, but even that was pretty fun so far.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline tunnelrat

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2014, 08:18:02 AM »
I've dropped waaaaaaay too much money on ships (though I stopped last... December?)  sweet-talked my way into the private Citizen Con last October (which was awesome... did a shot with Chris Roberts wooop wooooop) but I've held off on messing with the AC module... the fecal weather event over the mouse controls + the auto-aim of the gimballed weapons was enough to give me plenty of pause.

I'm still plenty excited about it, just not going to mess with it until all of the control options that you mentioned (TrackIR, etc) make it into the game.

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Offline Gman

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2014, 10:37:45 AM »
Saxman, they added TrackIR a couple updates back.

I've been using it for a couple weeks at least.  It's one of the few things that is actually working pretty much perfectly.  More about this at the bottom.

So far as the hardware end goes, they added customizable joystick configuration last update as well.  It's still kinda wonky and buggy, nothing as good as you'll find as AH, but it's on the way towards that, quickly as well.  See, it was the most complained about issue on the forums, and instead of answering their player base with combative posts of their own, or just ignoring it, they actually DID something about it, despite their own internal people telling them "the joystick thing is fine", when it absolutely WASN'T, especially for CH users.

You see, they had made profiles for the Warthog, the X55, and a few other popular sticks, and left everyone else out in the cold, figuring that was no big deal.  Wrong.  Not to mention the above stick's profiles couldn't be changed.

Now they can be, you still have to make a single stick profile with the CH manager profile, a bit of a PITA, but you can change all your button and axis now with whatever stick or hotas you have.



So far as the dogfighting experience, it's incredibly good, very complex.  You have a sort of fighter like space flight profile, combined with the ability to stop dead, spin on an axis while still traveling in another direction, as well as thrust in all 4 directions, up/down back/forward.  As you can imagine, it's like adding an entire new set of physics rules to what we understand here with Aces High.  Quite a bit of fun in fact.  They are still tuning the "fairness" of the gimbal aiming system, currently if you use a mouse to fly, you get a huge bonus in terms of precision of your fire, as the closer your cursor is to center, the more accurately and easier it is to train your guns on target. There is also a computer aiming system, similar to the offline targeting cue AH has in the training areas.  Of all the ships I have (all of them right now), the Hornet spanks everything, and badly, in the public arenas, so there is much complaining about that.  They are doing something about it, so much as they can, as it costs 125$, and it's a "pay for tech" system they're using, so the argument is if it SHOULD be spanking the 50$ fighters.

I would say it's an interesting experience, a different sort of fight than what happens here, not quite as fun or polished yet, but they are working towards it.  Every single day the developers communicate with the players via bbs and youtube video.  Every week the CEO does an hour long video ANSWERING QUESTIONS and complaints, instead of ignoring them.  An almost surreal experience compared to other games.  It isn't just $ either, they've been doing this since before they even got their first dollar put into the game.  It's just that the gaming public has responded vigorously to being treating in a much more open and involved fashion.  The 50 million dollars speaks for itself in that regard.


Also, a quick opinion regarding the mouse/aim issue.  IMO an easy fix is to make TrackIR almost mandatory.  I know, boo hiss right.  However, what happens is this - right now the mouse almost simulates trackIR with it's aiming capability while flying the ship once it moves outside of the aiming circle the gimbals give the guns, right?  Well, I've noticed that when in the Hornet or other fighter with a gimbaled gun turret, it actually tracks with my Track IR when using a joystick/HOTAS.  So, really, when I'm using trackIR with my CH or Warthog, I have all the advantage mouse guys have, more in fact, as I can aim the gimbals with my eyes/head, while simultaneously flying the ship with the stick/rudder/throttle.  That's something the mouse guys can't do, they can only really fly or aim to a certain extant - you can't pull violent out of aiming circle maneuvers with the mouse while simultaneously aiming.   I guess a good example is with TrackIR/Hotas, I can pull hard up, all the way, a violent maneuver, yet still aim and adjust my fire to a different spot or axis even with my head, and the targeting/aiming cue follows my head/TrackIR, NOT my joystick movement.  So, when a target moves out of my line of aim in a tracking gun shot solution, I can just adjust with my head, the gimbals following that TrackIR cuing, and still hit it.  That's something mouse guys cannot do right now, as when you pull up max with the mouse, the aiming cue follows with that, you can't isolate it and still aim close to the center, it's either pull up all the way, or make subtle less violent pulls, and keep the targeting cue/reticle inside that small circle, as they are connected in movement.  Advantage TrackIR/Hotas, which  =  Good times.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 10:50:32 AM by Gman »

Offline Saxman

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2014, 12:00:10 PM »
Yeah, I was working on customizing my controls yesterday, but didn't have a lot of time to really play around with it and get everything set to my satisfaction. What little time I played was spent tooling around free flight mode. Setting axes is definitely a bit twitchy, since you actually have to move the stick/rudder/etc. to set it (I think the Il-2 Series and Rise of Flight did the same). AH does it better by having it selectable via drop-down, which is much simpler. It would also be nice if you could separate axes for things like the Strafe function (IE, right now, Strafe Forward/Back is one axis. I'd like to be able to set the right toe brake on my CH Pro Pedals to Strafe Forward, and the left brake to Strafe Back, instead. Then I could have my toe brakes and the CH Throttle thumbstick for strafing).

And I agree that you SHOULD have some ships that are just better than others. A more expensive fighter ought to outperform something cheaper.

As for Track IR, is there a minimum version required? I think I'm running v4.X because there were stability/performance issues with 5.X and all of the help forums advised using the earlier version. All I know is, TIR wasn't working in the game.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Gman

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2014, 12:13:29 PM »
I'd wager it's your version.  Like I said, TrIR has been one of few things I've found that has worked properly from the first time it was added.  It's been 3 weeks exactly I think today since I first tried it.  Check your driver/version/etc for TrackIR, you're truly missing out on a good part of the game without it.  I'll look later as it's on another PC than this one, I'm pretty certain I have trackIR set to just regularly update, so I THINK I'm using the most up to date version.  IIRC there is even a "Star Citizen" addition from the folks at trackIR added to their pull down lists and what not.  Again, I'll check later on and post what version I'm using, as it's worked on 2 different gaming PCs, so hopefully it'll work on yours.

I too am a primarily CH user, I do have the Warthog, but mainly use it for DCS.  CH still is wonky like I said, and I experienced the same thing you just described as well, which is almost comforting to know, since now I'm certain it isn't just me.  I do know they are working on it, I've exchanged dozens of emails with the team working on it specifically, and they are aware that stuff still needs work.  This latest one was just a first attempt.  I wish they would just pay HTC to copy their stick set up system, I've truly never found a better or more efficient one, in any game.  Like you said, moving the sticks while selecting the axis/detection system isn't working right with Star Citizen right now, with either my CH or Warthog set up, and I've tried various combinations of rudders/single stick and so on.  

I hope you get TrackIR working, if you don't, PM me if you want, and I'll do what I can to help.  If you can get your CH gear working (I'll find the profile I was given, it's simple to install, and works perfectly if you configure CH with the manager in windows into a single group), the TrackIR will make your day, as aiming with it while flying as I described gives you an entirely new experience.  Very complex flying/aiming system it is, but once you get used to it, very lethal being able to aim and fire off axis from your flight direction or where your nose is pointed of you're flying uncoupled from the direction of flight.  
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:15:23 PM by Gman »

Offline Tumor

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2014, 12:15:51 PM »
The Pre-Alpha dog fighting launch is available now.  Really looking forward to playing it and comparing it.

They have an amazing following and an amazing amount of money they have raked in.

NO!
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Saxman

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2014, 12:42:58 PM »
I'd wager it's your version.  Like I said, TrIR has been one of few things I've found that has worked properly from the first time it was added.  It's been 3 weeks exactly I think today since I first tried it.  Check your driver/version/etc for TrackIR, you're truly missing out on a good part of the game without it.  I'll look later as it's on another PC than this one, I'm pretty certain I have trackIR set to just regularly update, so I THINK I'm using the most up to date version.  IIRC there is even a "Star Citizen" addition from the folks at trackIR added to their pull down lists and what not.  Again, I'll check later on and post what version I'm using, as it's worked on 2 different gaming PCs, so hopefully it'll work on yours.

I too am a primarily CH user, I do have the Warthog, but mainly use it for DCS.  CH still is wonky like I said, and I experienced the same thing you just described as well, which is almost comforting to know, since now I'm certain it isn't just me.  I do know they are working on it, I've exchanged dozens of emails with the team working on it specifically, and they are aware that stuff still needs work.  This latest one was just a first attempt.  I wish they would just pay HTC to copy their stick set up system, I've truly never found a better or more efficient one, in any game.  Like you said, moving the sticks while selecting the axis/detection system isn't working right with Star Citizen right now, with either my CH or Warthog set up, and I've tried various combinations of rudders/single stick and so on.  

I hope you get TrackIR working, if you don't, PM me if you want, and I'll do what I can to help.  If you can get your CH gear working (I'll find the profile I was given, it's simple to install, and works perfectly if you configure CH with the manager in windows into a single group), the TrackIR will make your day, as aiming with it while flying as I described gives you an entirely new experience.  Very complex flying/aiming system it is, but once you get used to it, very lethal being able to aim and fire off axis from your flight direction or where your nose is pointed of you're flying uncoupled from the direction of flight.  

I'll try updating TIR tonight. I've been reluctant to because I don't want it to break my AH profile...

Anyway, I've got the CH setup working in game, it's just a matter of getting everything mapped where it's comfortable (and I can remember what is doing what :-P ). I DID post over on the boards about having an option to split the axes mappings to work with on/off axes like those toe breaks. Pro Pedals aren't the only ones that have brakes independent of the rudder axis, so I'm sure a lot of people would benefit from that.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Saxman

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Re: Star Citizen
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2014, 08:33:59 PM »
Nope, still no TIR.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.