My Favorite Aircraft of all time!

[earl1937]

  I was asked a question recently in a post about which aircraft I had flown was my favorite, so I will attempt to answer it this way! I am basing my answer on cost, operating cost if I owned it, and the time frame of the 50's and 60's. I realize that there a lot of aircraft on the market now which would beat these aircraft head to head, but I haven't flown anything modern besides the King air 200.

Best single engine---Cessna 210N, a pressurized 6 place aircraft, with a service ceiling of 29,000 feet, 195knot cruise speed, with a stalling speed of 58 knots, which means you can get it in and out of short fields pretty easy. A 310 horsepower engine, burns about 18 gal/hr at cruise settings, with a 972 mile range, with a 45 min reserve.

The "Pod" on right wing is a radar antenna!


Believe it or not, if you run up pressurization before ditching, the thing will float a heck of a long time. Might come in handy if doing international flights!


The office in a 210N

Twin Engine aircraft---Beechcraft "B" model Baron! For what you get, a 210MPH aircraft, 6 place, 74 knot stalling speed and 1,000 mile range, this aircraft is hard to beat considering operating cost and so forth....A Cessna 310P or K is real close in the numbers for the Baron, but the Baron is a more stable instrument platform for IFR work.



"K" model 310

4 Engine aircraft---Douglas DC-6B is a powerful freight hauler and was a nice passenger aircraft for years with the airlines. Its handling qualities'.. are the best of any 4 engine aircraft I ever flew. Very stable aircraft, easy to fly, but as far as owning one, couldn't do it because of operating costs. It, like a number of 4 engine aircraft during that time frame, had high maitance down time, when you consider maintance hours vs flight hours.

[USCH]

Well la-tee-da.... didn't you see we were all worryed about you Earl?..
Ohh and good to see you back. How are you doing?

[Vraciu]

How does running up the pressurization help it float?

 

When the engine quits it depressurizes...

 

Someone watched Airport '77 I guess....

It will float because of the wing tanks...

I put this up there with the "get it on the step" myth.

Any how...  Richard Collins would agree on the 210 I suspect.  

[earl1937]

How does running up the pressurization help it float?

 

When the engine quits it depressurizes...

 

Someone watched Airport '77 I guess....

It will float because of the wing tanks...

I put this up there with the "get it on the step" myth.

Any how...  Richard Collins would agree on the 210 I suspect.  

I did know Richard very well and yes, he flew the 210 for many years, both the "P" models and the un-pressurized ones. But I have to correct you on one thing, as long as that prop is turning, it will hold pressure and you can dial up a 8,000 foot cabin, and yes your ears will hurt. Yes, you are correct about the wing tanks helping keep it afloat, but as the vents allow water in, they won't help long. I have never done that, thank goodness, but have talked to W.M. Turtlelot, who said he talked to a man who actually experienced that. that pressure pump will work down to about 400RPM, if I remember correctly! Of course after hitting the water and stopping, it is going to start losing pressure, but it might extend it long enough to allow you and passengers get organized to exit the aircraft.

[earl1937]

Well la-tee-da.... didn't you see we were all worryed about you Earl?..
Ohh and good to see you back. How are you doing?

Still having some discomfort, but its getting better each day, thanks for asking and showing your concern!

[Vraciu]

I did know Richard very well and yes, he flew the 210 for many years, both the "P" models and the un-pressurized ones. But I have to correct you on one thing, as long as that prop is turning, it will hold pressure and you can dial up a 8,000 foot cabin, and yes your ears will hurt. Yes, you are correct about the wing tanks helping keep it afloat, but as the vents allow water in, they won't help long. I have never done that, thank goodness, but have talked to W.M. Turtlelot, who said he talked to a man who actually experienced that. that pressure pump will work down to about 400RPM, if I remember correctly! Of course after hitting the water and stopping, it is going to start losing pressure, but it might extend it long enough to allow you and passengers get organized to exit the aircraft.

Once the door is open it is done.  That "trick" is BS.

And fact is, it will leak quite fast.   Totally irrelevant as the pic shows.

Frankly. Anyone who ditches a Cessna without opening the doors first is nuts.

[DaveBB]

Vraciu

I am not familiar with Cessna's pressurization system.  But all it would take is a 1-way check valve to keep the aircraft pressurized even with the engine off.

And what do you mean "Getting on step" is a myth?  It is harder to accelerate at a higher AoA.  Thus a dive to increase airspeed (and a reduction of AoA due to increased lift) works well.

[colmbo]

And what do you mean "Getting on step" is a myth?  It is harder to accelerate at a higher AoA.  Thus a dive to increase airspeed (and a reduction of AoA due to increased lift) works well.

All you have to do is add power to accelerate, as speed builds AOA will decrease.  The physics types say that you'll use the same amount of energy either way.

On the B-24 we did the climb above desired alt and dive back thing because it just seemed easier/ quicker than keeping the power up on level off....but the B-24 is one of those aircraft that is quirky in pitch.  You can be humming along at cruise indicating 185 or so but if you should get a bit abrupt in control use, say trying to stay formed on the ham fist flying the -17, you bump off some speed and need power to get back where you were. 

[Dichotomy]

Still having some discomfort, but its getting better each day, thanks for asking and showing your concern!

good news.  Keep getting better sir

[earl1937]

Vraciu

I am not familiar with Cessna's pressurization system.  But all it would take is a 1-way check valve to keep the aircraft pressurized even with the engine off.

And what do you mean "Getting on step" is a myth?  It is harder to accelerate at a higher AoA.  Thus a dive to increase airspeed (and a reduction of AoA due to increased lift) works well.

Good reply! always someone who knows more than the guys that designed and built it. Same thing with "on Step", the Beech Baron series of aircraft is a good example that the "on step" myth is in fact, a reality! Climb to altitude of choice, level off, square up the MP and RPM at 25 and watch watch happens! It'll show about 185 under normal atmospheric conditions. Do the same thing, but climb 500 feet above assigned altitude, lower nose, watch it go to about 215, then level off, square the MP and R's up again and it will show a steady 204 or 205 almost every time.
Any aircraft which fly's with a slightly negative angle of attitude, is faster in that attitude than in a zero aoa or a positive one!
Most manufactures will advise you to never "open" a door prior to touchdown in an emergency! That door does help maintain the integrity of the basic fuselage and would help in keeping the aircraft together in the event of a crash.   

[Vraciu]

Good reply! always someone who knows more than the guys that designed and built it. Same thing with "on Step", the Beech Baron series of aircraft is a good example that the "on step" myth is in fact, a reality! Climb to altitude of choice, level off, square up the MP and RPM at 25 and watch watch happens! It'll show about 185 under normal atmospheric conditions. Do the same thing, but climb 500 feet above assigned altitude, lower nose, watch it go to about 215, then level off, square the MP and R's up again and it will show a steady 204 or 205 almost every time.
Any aircraft which fly's with a slightly negative angle of attitude, is faster in that attitude than in a zero aoa or a positive one!
Most manufactures will advise you to never "open" a door prior to touchdown in an emergency! That door does help maintain the integrity of the basic fuselage and would help in keeping the aircraft together in the event of a crash.  

Peter Garrison, among others, has disproven the step thing pretty soundly.    This isn't a boat.   There is no step.  

As for pressurization and check valves....    The fuselage has a leak rate that cannot be stopped.   When the pressurization system stops the cabin will leak.   It won't take long to be at ambient pressure, check valves or not.   Nevermind the stress placed on the airplane when it hits the water.


Many manufacturers advise opening the door prior to touchdown so the doors don't get jammed shut.   Not all, but many.

[Bizman]

First, I'm no pilot nor a physics type so bear with my stupidity. Also, us Finns don't show whether we care about someone or not, so excuse me for not jumping of joy of you being better, earl...  

For the door part, my down to earth thinking says both earl and Vraciu have a point. If you open the door, any extra pressure is gone. But with the door closed the plane will keep together better. Also, with the door closed the pressure should stay high longer until the door is opened. On second thought, the pressure itself might necessarily have nothing to do with the buoyancy other than that there'd be more air to leak through any gaps before water will take its place, thus giving the passengers more time to figure out what they should do to survive. Thus, rather than pressure I figure it's a question of tightness. Ships are made of iron which also floats until someone opens the underwater door!

Please correct me in each point where my thinking is totally wrong. I'm a passenger every now and then and you never know when such knowledge may decide who'd live.

[Hetzer7]

Always liked the 310K, great looking aircraft

 <S> ET37

[earl1937]

First, I'm no pilot nor a physics type so bear with my stupidity. Also, us Finns don't show whether we care about someone or not, so excuse me for not jumping of joy of you being better, earl...  

For the door part, my down to earth thinking says both earl and Vraciu have a point. If you open the door, any extra pressure is gone. But with the door closed the plane will keep together better. Also, with the door closed the pressure should stay high longer until the door is opened. On second thought, the pressure itself might necessarily have nothing to do with the buoyancy other than that there'd be more air to leak through any gaps before water will take its place, thus giving the passengers more time to figure out what they should do to survive. Thus, rather than pressure I figure it's a question of tightness. Ships are made of iron which also floats until someone opens the underwater door!

Please correct me in each point where my thinking is totally wrong. I'm a passenger every now and then and you never know when such knowledge may decide who'd live.

My advice would be this! The quicker you can get "wet", guess you have a better chance of survival in a ditch. All I know about it is just what I have heard over the years.

[Arlo]

On second thought, the pressure itself might necessarily have nothing to do with the buoyancy other than that there'd be more air to leak through any gaps before water will take its place ....

I think that's a rather important 'other than.'