Author Topic: Handguns  (Read 1915 times)

Offline Flench

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2014, 12:51:33 PM »
Well I got the S&W 1911 but it's way to heavy to carry all day . You get hit at point blank with this 410 it's going to blow a hole through you .
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2014, 12:51:54 PM »
Flench I strongly recommend you go to a range that has several handguns for rent and try a few. I am NOT a fan of the two shot derringer. The folks I know who have had one have had very spotty luck with reliability issues.

I carried for a living. I still carry today, every day. I do not carry a 22 unless that is all I have. I will never ever carry a NA mini revolver. I've shot them and I have a Walther TPH 22 that will shoot rings around the NA stuff. I don't carry that except as a back up to a bigger gun. Yeah they are cute and tiny. They are also very hard to shoot accurately more than 10 feet away. That is about 3 steps distance. The 22 can be effective but requires precise placement. In a crunch, under pressure, in a hurry, the NA will not do the job unless you are an expert marksman in real world settings. Range doesn't count since the rounds only go one way there.

I recommend a S&W airweight 642 or equivalent ( like a Ruger LCR) in .38 loaded with premium ammo like Hornady Critical Defence / Duty ammo. If you must have a semi auto the smallest I would recommend is the Ruger LCP with the same brand ammo in .380. Use an inside the pocket holster for each.

S&W and Kahr also make a .380 equivalent to the LCP. If you can find one a better option is the Ruger LC9. A touch bigger but a better round in 9MM, stay with the Hornady Critical Defense ammo there too. Or another brand that has the same capabilities.

Lastly I recommend you get some training and practice practice practice practice. You want to be able to shoot well with some built in muscle memory because that is the level you will end up shooting at when the crap hits the fan. Invest in ammo and range time. The best fight to win is the one you avoid having to fight.

If you have been threatened get an order of protection or restraining order against the person who is doing the threats. You want a record of trouble if you think they will really come after you.

Learn the concealed carry laws in your home area. You want to be properly licensed if required. You do NOT want to end up being arrested for illegally carrying.
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Offline Flench

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2014, 12:55:29 PM »
I understand Maverick , Thanks .
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Offline mbailey

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2014, 03:12:47 PM »
Those S&W airweights are nice......just not to friendly on the hand ( I think it was Pewter a few threads ago said he had one / or shot one  in .357. Ask him to describe the recoil  :lol

I have a good friend that carries a Kahr P9. He's loves the thing, and to my knowledge never had any issues with it


.270 works too though  :D
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Offline Flench

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2014, 05:05:59 PM »



.270 works too though  :D

Yeah it does . Quite well , lol .
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Offline eagl

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2014, 05:18:35 PM »
I like my ruger LCP.  .380.  Not a huge punch but it'll leave a mark and it makes loud enough sounds to make it clear there's a shootin war going on.

I got it for 3 reasons.

1.  I know I won't carry anything larger and I don't need another gun to sit on the shelf.
2.  It is more rounded than other comparable models and has less protruding bits to catch on clothing.
3.  It functioned reliably with 6 different types of ammo when I took it to the range the first time.

It isn't terribly expensive either.  And for those tactical types, there is a laser sight that attaches easily and doesn't really add to any of the dimensions of the weapon, and actually makes it print a bit more like a wallet when carried in a pocket.  I have mixed feelings about laser sights so I'm not using one and I'm practicing rapid employment without "aiming", out to about 15 yards.  It points really easily with my right hand but for some reason I can't shoot it at all in my left hand.  It just doesn't fit/feel/point/recoil correctly in my left hand.  I suspect I need to try harder, but its really the first gun I've ever used that I couldn't shoot accurately on the first try with my left hand.  Other than that, it has been more than satisfactory.

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Offline colmbo

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2014, 05:24:28 PM »
Hard to beat a revolver for dependability.

I have never had an auto loader fail to function except for a couple of stove pipes which are easily and quickly cleared.

I have many times had a revolver fail to function serious enough that it put the gun out of action.

Just my experience with handguns.
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Online Brooke

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2014, 06:48:00 PM »
Study was very subjective Brooke.

He gets data -- he gives various stats calculated from the data.  That is exactly the opposite of objective.

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First off the data pool is small.

Yes, but it's the data.  Smallness of the data set doesn't mean that it is unscientific or objective.  It's always better to have larger data sets.

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Second its a statistical fact that at least 5 out of 6 people shot with handguns will survive, and a BG still breathing is a BG who is dangerous.

That is not what I'm pointing out as the useful bit.  The useful bit to me isn't probability of killing a person in 1 shot, or percentage of people still alive at the end of the attack, etc. -- the useful bit is, on average, how many shots does it take until the attack stops.  The most-probable number of shots is 1, regardless of ammo.  That doesn't seem surprising.  That is why a .22 is OK (not the best, but OK) for typical self defense -- according to this data set.

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Now since the type of projectile is as important as the caliber itself the lack of inclusion of said data, ITSELF, invalidates the study.

That doesn't invalidate the study or the part of it that I think is interesting.

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My guess is he uses a lot of military data

I don't think so, given where he says he got the data, but who knows?

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His use of head shots is also an aberration . . .
and they themselves walk to the hospital . . . [etc.]

I don't care about any of that.  The main thing is:  how many shots does it take to stop an attack. In the military and in police work, you probably care a great deal about the state of the guy at the end -- but that is not a normal citizen's main concern.  If .22's took 15 shots on average for an attack to stop (or even 5), that would mean a .22 is not very useful.   It takes less than 2 on average, about the same as other calibers.  What this means is that one shot from a gun (no matter what type of gun it is or what ammo it has) typically will cause an attacker to say "Screw this" and move off -- again, according to this data set.

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He leaves the reader feeling a .22 is just as good as a .38 and that just isnt so.

According to the data, it is, as long as you define "just as good" as "takes about the same number of shots on average until the attack stops".  If you define "just as good" as "kills the same number of people in one shot" or "has the same percentage of people dead at end of attack" or something else, then no, that's not correct -- but that's not what he means.

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When I first started this business over 30 years ago

Your realm of operation is vastly different than the average civilian's.  You should have a much bigger gun than a .22.  I wish you had a shotgun -- all the time!

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But all in all theres no way I'd ever tell anyone to carry a .22 to protect themselves.

You probably would if they would carry a small .22 but would not carry anything bigger.  That's what I'm getting at.  It's not that a small .22 is better than a .38 if a person would carry either one equally frequently -- the .38 is of course better in that case.

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I once had a .22 Beretta and had it in my pocket when two guys tried to rob me one morning. Without going into detail the piece did not bring me comfort and I sold it the next day and never again carried a mouse gun.

I'm interested in the particulars if you could relate them.

Also, would you rather have had the .22 Beretta or no gun at all, if those were your only two options?

Offline Patches1

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2014, 01:52:51 AM »

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Offline Gman

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2014, 02:17:19 AM »
Quote
Also, would you rather have had the .22 Beretta or no gun at all, if those were your only two options?

That's a good point IMO.  The very first shooting course I ever took, had Jeff Cooper driving up and down the long line of shooters in his golf cart.  Afterwards he invited a bunch of us from Canada to his home at location for some drinks, as he wanted to talk with some of the officers that had come down.  One thing he harped on was the following, as he knew how limited we are/were with handguns up here - "The very worst handgun in the world, so long as it will fire, is still many times better than the next best defensive option."   

I believe he was right, which answers the quoted question pretty well. 

Offline Flench

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2014, 02:47:06 AM »
You know dude was  a fool to call me and say he is coming to my house to kick my assss . He must of had a deaf wish . If I had not been trained and been shooting all my life he mite have been in big trouble . I would have loved to seen him when the cop's were slapping the handcuffs on him . Next time he be leaving in a body bag if their any part's left .
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Handguns
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2014, 09:49:41 AM »
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I'm interested in the particulars if you could relate them.

Also, would you rather have had the .22 Beretta or no gun at all, if those were your only two options?

No real particulars. I was in a garage getting my boat ready for fishing when I saw 2 males walking towards me in the alley with a "robbers" neon sign on their foreheads. I had my gun out before they got there and they tried surrounding me in the garage when I waved my mouse gun at them and acted crazy which made them leave. I followed them and saw them break into a car, called the on duty police, and they were caught with the car stereo and a gun on them. Both had just gotten out of the joint for robbery. Typical stuff, I couldnt count the robber's and burglars Ive caught thru the years.

The only "point" I could see was that I had much better weaponry at home and because I was going fishing I just threw a little mouse gun in my pocket even tho the .38 snub wasnt much bigger. These things happen fast and without much warning. I was lucky to have a few seconds and the instincts to know scumbags when I see them. The only thing missing was a better caliber should I had to use it.
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