Bi-lingual?

[Dragon Tamer]

Is there anyone here who has learned a second language (growing up with it doesn't count). Right now I'm very enthusiastic about learning Japanese of my own accord (not taking any classes for it), but the language is so different from ours that I'm having some trouble. I know a few basic phrases/words but not enough to apply context clues to a conversation yet (if I get that far I should eventually learn the rest).

I guess what I'm looking for is someone to share my pain with me and possibly give me some advice on what worked for them.

[Lusche]

Is there anyone here who has learned a second language (growing up with it doesn't count).

Someone on this board...  very unlikely...  



For the record, learning a second language in school is mandatory for about anyone over here. Higher education (50+% of the students) means you got to learn a 3rd language in school for some time as well.
I had English in school from grade 5-13, Latin from 7-11. Had a very basic course in Italian on University and tried my luck with lessons in French, but utterly failed at that and quickly ended it *g*

However, I didn't really learn English in school. I was a horrible student with marks comparable to your 'F'. In reality I learned from games... at that time fantasy role playing games and wargames, which you could only get imported and of course not translated.
I simply immersed myself in that stuff because I was so immensely interested in the content. The learning effect came automatically.

[Tinkles]

Is there anyone here who has learned a second language (growing up with it doesn't count). Right now I'm very enthusiastic about learning Japanese of my own accord (not taking any classes for it), but the language is so different from ours that I'm having some trouble. I know a few basic phrases/words but not enough to apply context clues to a conversation yet (if I get that far I should eventually learn the rest).

I guess what I'm looking for is someone to share my pain with me and possibly give me some advice on what worked for them.

Had to take spanish in high school. Senior year took a course in Japanese. I speak a little, understand some. Anime helps (me) with learning.

[shotgunneeley]

Took two years of Spanish in highschool, two years in college. I got good grades and  worked up to the intermediate level, but I never really took off with it. Kept wanting to work out the conversation in English rather than converse in Spanish solely. Reading and writing came easier to me than speaking and listening. Last class was some four years ago, about the only thing I've retained is "¡Ay,que lata!"

I'd really like to learn German, though that isn't something readily applicable around here. I've always heard if you really want to grasp another language then you have to fully immerse yourself in it for a while. Spanish is about the only secondary language that would be of any use for me to know.

[Lusche]

I'd really like to learn German, though that isn't something readily applicabable around here.

Just imagine being able to read Heidegger in the original language! 

[MrKrabs]

Anata wa Skuzzy ga eigoigai no gengo de henshin suru tame ni watashi ni harawotaterudarou to omoimasu ka?

Watashi wa sore ga `rūru' ni ihan toejamaga chansu wa, kare wa tonikaku sore o sakujo shimasu to wa omowanai...

[Lusche]

Anata wa Skuzzy ga eigoigai no gengo de henshin suru tame ni watashi ni harawotaterudarou to omoimasu ka?

Watashi wa sore ga `rūru' ni ihan toejamaga chansu wa, kare wa tonikaku sore o sakujo shimasu to wa omowanai...

[MrKrabs]

(Image removed from quote.)

Sore wa watashi ga Skuzzy Lusche kara yurushi o kouga hitsuyō ni naru baai ga arimasu hōhōdesu...

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I have studied three languages but not by much effort. In school it's mandatory to have 3 languages (native, second native and one foreign). I'm fluent in finnish and english. I'm able to speak greek and swedish with some difficulty and I understand most of spoken german and a little bit of italian.

The best way to learn a language is to have good motivation. So get a girlfriend from the country you wish to learn the language from lol.

[zack1234]

Just imagine being able to read Heidegger in the original language! 

Its still poo

[Gman]

Ripley makes a good point, barring a GF, joining a local group in the language you're interested in will help you more than any book/computer learning you can do.  In Calgary there are all kinds of "learn Mandarin, Spanish, etc" groups posted online you can join and participate with as much as you like, learning to speak and write from a teacher/group for free.

Many Europeans grow up multilingual, which makes learning new languages easier IMO.  I grew up bilingual, I spoke French before English, and went to a 50/50 French/English school until High school, where I switched to an all English school due to the program I wanted to be in being there.  I didn't have to take the usually mandatory regular high school french there, so I took Spanish instead.  Learning it was a snap due to already speaking 2 languages.

However, years later, when I hadn't used French or Spanish, I'd found learning languages was a very perishable skill, and when living in Hong Kong for the better part of a year, I was as useless as every other Gwai Lo in picking up Cantonese and Mandarin.  

Everybody is different, but I've experienced the ease of learning from a multilingual perspective, as well as sort of "starting over" like a single language person after years, over a decade, of lack of practice.  Learning a new one when I'd only spoken and written English, particularly an Asian language, was harder than I thought it would be.  Joining a group of fellow people like myself while in HK really helped me learn to speak well more quickly.  Writing is another matter.

Dragon, it's a fun thing to do, despite the work.  My advice would be pick a reasonably decent program/course, and find some fellow Kanji speakers in your area.  Joining a group that uses Kanji like Kendo, or various other Japanese arts may help too, especially if there is Japanese instructors and students - tell them you wish to learn the language as well as the skills being taught, you'll likely make some good new friends which will help you on your way.

I too have always been interested in learning Japanese, as I collect swords and have a number of antique Japanese blades, and also trained in Kendo and other Japanese sword arts for years, without ever learning any of the language beyond what was used in class.  Ruah here from Kommondo Nowotny speaks Japanese I believe, in addition to other things, and would be a GREAT person to PM and ask for advice about learning Kanji.  

[rogwar]

Is there anyone here who has learned a second language (growing up with it doesn't count).

Yes Spanish and Portuguese. One of the hardest things I have ever done. Went to a language school and plus had to study a lot on my own. I'd say it took me 10 years to become really fluent. Now I do presentations, meetings and negotiations in those languages as well as used to get all kinds of women in Latin America.

[jolly22]

English is my native language, but I speak fairly fluent Spanish. I took 5 years in High School and minoring in College ATM. Granted, I still have a lot to learn, but I know my ways around the latino babes.

[Bizman]

Apart from Finnish, I am able to communicate in English, Swedish, German and somewhat in French, all of which I've learned at school. When I was born, my home was tri-lingual as my mother talked Finnish and my dad German to me while they spoke Swedish to each other, the last being a foreign language to both of them! Having to is the best motivation, at least that's what my dad always says. He first came to Finland as an exchange student, and because he had come earlier than the rest of the group they made him their translator "because he had had the time to learn the language". How much earlier was that? Two weeks...

Speaking is a good way to learn, although reading is important too. I once was told about a foreign (Rumanian?) worker in Bavaria, Germany, who could fluently speak the local dialect. Then one day in the mess he asked his friends what would be on the menu the upcoming week. The co-workers stared at him puzzled, because there was a big sign on the wall showing the menu. So they asked if the guy couldn't read and the answer was: Yes, I can read, but I can't read German. You may laugh, but if you know more than one language, you should also know that even single letters are pronounced differently in another language. Not to mention English, where a single vowel can have four or more sounds depending on the word.

One thing I've found fun in learning languages is to find similarities in them, or logical chains. For example English is one third Latin from the Roman Empire and later William the Conqueror and his French court, one third old Norwegian from the Vikings and one third anything else including the original languages spoken in the British Isles. Most languages have lent words from others for one reason or another, and despite the long distance even Japanese has many English idioms which of course have adapted to fit the Japanese mouth. Finding such words can be quite a lot of fun.

My most hilarious moment of deeper understanding was around the word "history": It's basically the same word in all Western languages including Finnish, but what does it actually mean? Try to follow my ideas... In German the study subject of history is called "Geschichte" which translates into "stories", but they also use the word "Historie" and there's even an expression of "historische Geschichte" - historical stories. A side note: History -> hi-story, meaning "a story" at least in French and Swedish... And ""Geschichte" comes from "geschehen", to happen, which I possibly erratically conjuncted to the word "scene". So "history" is stories of bygone happenings that have taken place on certain scenes. Observations like this help at least me understand and remember expressions.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Apart from Finnish, I am able to communicate in English, Swedish, German and somewhat in French, all of which I've learned at school. When I was born, my home was tri-lingual as my mother talked Finnish and my dad German to me while they spoke Swedish to each other, the last being a foreign language to both of them! Having to is the best motivation, at least that's what my dad always says. He first came to Finland as an exchange student, and because he had come earlier than the rest of the group they made him their translator "because he had had the time to learn the language". How much earlier was that? Two weeks...

Speaking is a good way to learn, although reading is important too. I once was told about a foreign (Rumanian?) worker in Bavaria, Germany, who could fluently speak the local dialect. Then one day in the mess he asked his friends what would be on the menu the upcoming week. The co-workers stared at him puzzled, because there was a big sign on the wall showing the menu. So they asked if the guy couldn't read and the answer was: Yes, I can read, but I can't read German. You may laugh, but if you know more than one language, you should also know that even single letters are pronounced differently in another language. Not to mention English, where a single vowel can have four or more sounds depending on the word.

One thing I've found fun in learning languages is to find similarities in them, or logical chains. For example English is one third Latin from the Roman Empire and later William the Conqueror and his French court, one third old Norwegian from the Vikings and one third anything else including the original languages spoken in the British Isles. Most languages have lent words from others for one reason or another, and despite the long distance even Japanese has many English idioms which of course have adapted to fit the Japanese mouth. Finding such words can be quite a lot of fun.

My most hilarious moment of deeper understanding was around the word "history": It's basically the same word in all Western languages including Finnish, but what does it actually mean? Try to follow my ideas... In German the study subject of history is called "Geschichte" which translates into "stories", but they also use the word "Historie" and there's even an expression of "historische Geschichte" - historical stories. A side note: History -> hi-story, meaning "a story" at least in French and Swedish... And ""Geschichte" comes from "geschehen", to happen, which I possibly erratically conjuncted to the word "scene". So "history" is stories of bygone happenings that have taken place on certain scenes. Observations like this help at least me understand and remember expressions.

I find the most fun when words of two languages mean completely different things.

For example a finnish phrase 'putsata munia' which means cleaning some eggs when pronounced in front of a greek person sounds to them like 'a rude expression of male genitalia on a rude expression of female genitalia'