Author Topic: 50 Cal's still weak  (Read 1470 times)

Offline Jed

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 141
50 Cal's still weak
« on: October 26, 2014, 01:33:07 PM »
Still grossly undermodeled.. Saddled up behind a tempest 300 out ... Hold the trigger down little to no damage.
One ping from a cannon. And I am in the tower!   It could use some tweaking in my opinion..   = my wish. 

Offline cobia38

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 02:45:01 PM »
 that's funny,i have no problem sawing wings off at 800 yards with .50s   :headscratch:


  Harvesting taters,one  K4 at a time

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 02:48:31 PM »
Still grossly undermodeled.. Saddled up behind a tempest 300 out ... Hold the trigger down little to no damage.
One ping from a cannon. And I am in the tower!   It could use some tweaking in my opinion..   = my wish. 

There is nothing wrong with the .50 calibers in the game, it's a very potent weapon system in game.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline JimmyD3

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4270
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2014, 03:29:20 PM »
that's funny,i have no problem sawing wings off at 800 yards with .50s   :headscratch:

 :rofl Cobia, you don't count :)
Kenai77
CO Sic Puppies MWK
USAF 1971-76

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2014, 03:54:46 PM »
Still grossly undermodeled.. Saddled up behind a tempest 300 out ... Hold the trigger down little to no damage.
One ping from a cannon. And I am in the tower!   It could use some tweaking in my opinion..   = my wish. 

Sure the tempest isn't simply a tough bird. I saddled up behind a typhoon at 300 last night. I unloaded 50 20mm and whatever 50cal goes along into him before he went down, probably with a dead pilot. Pieces fell off, engine smoked, and fuel leaked. But, that was a very tough bird. 20mm hisso AP had very good penetration power and our rounds are some kind of a hybrid of AP\HE for the hit counter.

Cobia you know derned well the A20 six AN\M2 have a cone of concentrated pattern. P47 has convergence issues. You are more likely to get many more 50cal onto a single area of your con than the P47 pilot will if he is not holding at convergence.

Yesterday I was testing gunsights offline. The C.205 took 3 MK108 to the rudder and elevator assembly's without loosing anything or the rear end falling off. Fourth round accomplished that. Then some planes went poop with a single 30mm or showed damage the plane couldn't fly home with.

After all of these years. I just keep shooting the guy until he goes boom or I don't want to waste anymore ammo. I'm assuming offline in the arena settings for environment. I'm using MA default lethality and hardness when I'm shooting the drones since I never touch those settings. I'm assuming that is what HTC is setting each MA map to. So if the C.205 offline takes 3 30mm to the tail assemblies and nothing seems to happen until the 4th 30mm causes a wing to fall off. That is what will happen in the MA with the C.205. I've noticed with the P51D, sometimes offline the 30mm does very little in it's tail assembly, then a single round there blows half the elevator or rudder off. Similar things with all of the other rounds from 303 - 20mm. Kind of random effects for how much control offline we have in our saddling up to the drones.

Unless when you choose offline your arena settings are different from the MA settings. Then I would like to know how to set my offline lethality and hardness to MA standard.

This is why I keep asking for a switch so we can choose to have the drones fall out of the air, or be degraded out of the air the same way damage would make us in the MA. Pilot wounds eventually make your drone die. Running out of fluids kills the engine. A wing falling off or part of a wing degrading the flight profile realistically.  You can cut everything off some airplanes and still have 3\4 of a fuselage flying around the drone circuit. Otherwise you have to keep shooting until the damage model says the pilot is now dead.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Jed

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 141
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2014, 05:27:17 PM »
It should not take 7 different center fueslage hits on snapshots AT MY CONVERGenCe to bring a plane down. All the while knowing if I get hit with ONE 20mm it's all over.  It is not as effective as it should be as a weapon system..... I know this will fall on only the ears of people who want to disagree with any wish on here...   I am off my soap box.... 

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23939
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 05:39:46 PM »
It should not take 7 different center fueslage hits on snapshots AT MY CONVERGenCe to bring a plane down.

Why not?


All the while knowing if I get hit with ONE 20mm it's all over.  

It ain't what way at all, unless you score a pilot kill. Almost all planes can "soack up" more 20mm damage in the fuselage

Furtheremore, a 20mm Hispano has about 2.5x the muzzle energy of a contemorary .50 cal round plus explosive charge - which makes all the difference. Punching a hole vs punching a hole with much more energy and then blowing up.

Quote
Commander Monroe noted that, from a gun “horsepower” standpoint, one 20 mm cannon was equivalent to three .50-caliber machine guns. “The 20 will go through .75 inch of armor at 500 yards, while the .50 cal will go through only .43.” He also noted that the cannon barrel was not as susceptible to being damaged with long bursts like the machine gun’s.

http://thanlont.blogspot.de/2013/07/cannon-vs-machine-guns.html

« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 05:55:05 PM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 05:41:54 PM »
M2 isso easy to kill with...even a caveman could do it.
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10470
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2014, 06:03:54 PM »
It should not take 7 different center fueslage hits on snapshots AT MY CONVERGenCe to bring a plane down. All the while knowing if I get hit with ONE 20mm it's all over.  It is not as effective as it should be as a weapon system..... I know this will fall on only the ears of people who want to disagree with any wish on here...   I am off my soap box.... 


  Jed,  I think what you really want is a better damage model!   The 50 cals are fine as they are,so are the 30 cals the problem isnt the guns and or ammo it's they way the game deals with damage.

   This has been a gripe of mine as well,I wish we had a more finite damage model and the damage should affect the flight of a plane more than it does. I would like to see things like control cables and rods being severed or broken,gauges become unreadable or inoperative,drop tanks that catch fire,etc.

     I think this would make the guns seem more effective than there are now.



    :salute

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18263
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2014, 07:37:46 PM »
It should not take 7 different center fueslage hits on snapshots AT MY CONVERGenCe to bring a plane down. All the while knowing if I get hit with ONE 20mm it's all over.  It is not as effective as it should be as a weapon system..... I know this will fall on only the ears of people who want to disagree with any wish on here...   I am off my soap box.... 

Whats your hit% in game? If it is under 2% your not hitting very well with your rounds. On top of that if your running a line down the side of a plane it isn't going to do the damage less rounds hitting a single spot.

I struggle all the time with aim, but I have no real trouble downing a plane when I do get the burst to hit.

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 11:25:34 PM »
I never had a problem with the realism of the MG and cannon damage in the game.

From all the data Ive read AH seems to get it pretty well realistic. Even 4 0.50s are pretty potent.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline lunatic1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2795
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2014, 11:32:41 PM »
Still grossly undermodeled.. Saddled up behind a tempest 300 out ... Hold the trigger down little to no damage.
One ping from a cannon. And I am in the tower!   It could use some tweaking in my opinion..   = my wish. 
20mm and 30mm etc. are a more powerful round than a .50cal. round--best target on a plane is the wings-target them..i fly the p-51d 6 gun package--the only problem I have is aiming correctly.
C.O. of the 173rd Guardian Angels---Don't fire until you can see the whites of their eyes...Major devereux(The Battle Of Wake Island-1941.
R.I.P.49GRIN/GRIN-R.I.P. WWHISKEY R.I.P WIZZY R.I.P.

Offline Jed

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 141
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 07:26:00 AM »
+1 to the damage model...   I think that's more of what I am talking about .
My hit percentage averages around 8-9% so I am hitting things.  They just fly away.

Offline Tinkles

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1501
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 08:05:07 AM »
+1 to the damage model...   I think that's more of what I am talking about .
My hit percentage averages around 8-9% so I am hitting things.  They just fly away.

Imo the dmg model is fine. I fly with 50cal and 30mm planes. I have no problem getting kills in either. Planes with 4 50 cals kill slightly slower than those with 6 or 8, but it's doable and quickly too :) AIm for critical points, and sometimes it's lag if they dont die all the time.
If we have something to show we will & do post shots, if we have nothing new to show we don't.
HiTech
Adapt , Improvise, Overcome. ~ HiTech
Be a man and shoot me in the back ~ Morfiend

Offline Coalcat1

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 913
Re: 50 Cal's still weak
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 08:06:52 AM »
Check your connection, AKAK is right about the 50s, I've fixed my issues by screwing around with convergence.