Author Topic: He-162  (Read 2091 times)

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: He-162
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2014, 11:34:48 AM »
Note: They have one of these at Planes of Fame in Chino, California. It is striking how small this bird is. Maybe the size of a Cessna 152 or something. Very, very small.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: He-162
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2014, 05:54:55 PM »
When we talk numbers weren't only like 13 Ta-152s in service/combat by the end of the war? If so, that would mean the He-162 would make the cut.


Just think how much simpler these debates would be if HTC, lo, those many years ago, had not succumbed to the desire to include the Ta-152....

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Offline Lusche

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Re: He-162
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2014, 06:10:40 PM »

Just think how much simpler these debates would be if HTC, lo, those many years ago, had not succumbed to the desire to include the Ta-152....

... or the Ostwind ;)
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: He-162
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2014, 09:42:42 PM »

Just think how much simpler these debates would be if HTC, lo, those many years ago, had not succumbed to the desire to include the Ta-152....

- oldman

I'm glad they did. Now, to see AH back on the History Channel. That is my He-162 and P-61B all wrapped into one.

Boo
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: He-162
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2014, 12:32:33 PM »
Aces high on the history channel?
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Offline SysError

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Re: He-162
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2014, 02:55:57 PM »
I'm glad they did. Now, to see AH back on the History Channel. That is my He-162 and P-61B all wrapped into one.

Boo

I wonder if the History Channel (cable/local TV, even radio) works out for AH.  We used to run ads on radio (and the web) - return was very poor.  I would think that ads in specialty magazines and web sites (even small ones) would be the way to go for  a game like AH.  One problem is that Ad agents do like them b/c there are too few dollars in it for them.
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Offline Volron

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Re: He-162
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2014, 03:19:49 PM »
History Channel is how I found out about Aces High, so it does work.  That is the target area they should start with again (I do not know if they still have an active ad on HC).  Discovery Wings, Military Channel, etc., could be expanded upon.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: He-162
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2014, 03:27:13 PM »
History Channel is how I found out about Aces High, so it does work.  


It only shows it worked indivdually.

The question is, does it work good enough globally, i.e. do you get enough subscribers to pay off the investment in advertising there?
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Offline SysError

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Re: He-162
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2014, 12:44:36 PM »

It only shows it worked indivdually.

The question is, does it work good enough globally, i.e. do you get enough subscribers to pay off the investment in advertising there?

I would be surprised if the answer (to a TV/Cable buy) was yes.  First off determining return rates on Tv/Cable/newsprint/direct mail/handout flyers can be hard.  The web says that it is better at counting, but not really.  You might get a good click through rate number, but what you really need is a good sales rate (and with a subscription product/service) length of use.

When we did a keyword purchase from Google a few years ago, it took us about a day to say "get me the hell out of here".  Expensive, very poor leads.

The absolute best feed back all ways came from telemarketing.  You could tell down to the second and the penny what level of effort you needed and what the pay back was.  (variables: qualified leads, scripts, time of day call, region and oh yea product...) 

For a TV buy you generally want a unique phone number or web address (www.htc.com/tv_offer) to measure impact.  (unless of course the phone isn't usually ringing at all..., unless you have two ad campaigns running at the same time, I,e, TV buy, radio buy).   When you are selling products you should make sure that you have your phones staffed when you run the ads.  Not as important for a service.  I do not know what the rule of thumb is for on-line subscriptions.  (Most TV adds during prime time are really more about Brand Name development - not direct sales.  Very quickly, Brands are about developing an implied warranty to maintain market share from current competitors and to establish/maintain a barrier to market entry for want-to-bes.  TV ads that sell, at least in the USA, usually run at night/low cost slots and they really are telemarketing firms getting you to call them as opposed to the other way around).   

The old rule of thumb rule (old media) was that you need 5 impressions before you had a sale/no sale decision.  I've read web guys challenge that.  But I think that they are more interested in getting businesses to do web buys as opposed to old media.  I think that what is really perhaps going on is that the definition of an impression needs to change.

Very quickly.  Old rule: you need to make 5 impressions before a target becomes a customer.  (Impressions over 5 have little to no impact.)   Why 5?  It is based on an analysis of personality types and how people make decisions.  Most people need to be exposed to a sales pitch 5 times before they buy.  Even people who say that they make decisions on the spot, need about 5 impressions.  Very few people make a decision on less than 3 impressions.  (If I remember correctly, it is somewhere in the 2% range.)   Most ad campaigns only get to people 3 times.  (The definition of an impression included leaving a voice mail messages.  So if you called someone on the third call and it went to VM, it counted as an impression).  So most ad campaigns end before they get to a point were a target might say yes.  The problem, especially with TV, with getting to impression 4 and 5 is cost.  Getting 1 impression is cheap.  2 not too bad.  3 still probably OK.  4 getting worried.  5 ouch.  And you need to do this with enough viewers (targets) to cover your ad cost buy.  It is hard.

As an example, think of it this way.  You have $xxx to spend, but you need it back in 6 months.  If you spent $xxx and got 10 new users at $14.95, that is (14.95 x 10) x 6 = $879.  So $879 minus variable cost factors (assume just credit card costs at 2-3% for simplicity) you got around $852.  Did your ad campaign cost more than $852?

It is hard.

For small businesses ad campaigns need to be very focused, almost what is termed gorilla in nature.  I would find a complementary activity that users might be interested in.  I would think that interest in WWII planes, the War, etc would be a good fit.  Call up one of those WWII Russian enthusiast plane sites and offer a fixed fee for a banner for a year.  I'm sure that they would listen.  (Could you guys agree on terms? I do not know).

You could do the same thing for tank museums etc.

When we (family) went to England I found "private" WWII museum after museum, usually run by volunteers all over the place.  Talk to them.  Web site banners maybe - but more importantly an agreement to place brochures and large format posters within their establishment.  Custom posters that say something like "see what it is like to fly these machine at www.htc  ) (We went to Tangemere,  close to Chichester.  http://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/  They had simulators there one of which looked right out of an old version of Aces High http://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/flight-simulators.  Maybe sponsor a simulator?!)

What about a small booth at air shows?  (BTW, I know that Booths are expensive - you would think so but they are...)

How about posters at small regional airports?  To be sure a lot of them might say no, but there is a whole world out there.  If there was a downloadable PDF poster in different sizes and languages for players to grab, print out and pin up at their local regional airport how many people would do it?  (BTW, on the posters, I would have a few printed out and ready to mail on request because posters with a printed boarder are far more "visible" than posters without them.  Most people do not have access to a printer that can print right up to the paper's edge.)

How about Radio Controlled Vehicles?  I would think that within an RC Airplane club you are going to have lots of people with a natural fit to Aces High.  Here is one http://www.dc-rc.org/ and they have an ad that takes you to http://www.hobbyhangarva.com/.  Maybe you could talk to Hobby Hangar and have a joint marketing campaign.  I know that they used to (and still may do) sell a really nice model FU4-1D (~$16K with options).  Offer their customers who make a purchase a 2 month free subscription.

Go to the manufacture of the F4U and offer the same "bonus coupons" for their customers.

These guys should see you not a competitor but as a compliment to their business.

You want to buy print ads (not a bad idea), go find the RC magazines and ask for rates.
 

Also, lastly, most business know that the most important customers are their regular ones.  With a subscription model, in a sense HTC has to sell us every month.  Why the hell do you guys not have a monthly (or quarterly) newsletter?  It is nuts not to have one.  You guys are about to release to the world a new version of the game and the only people who know about it are users who log on, at the right time, to your web page.  Give me a BREAK!!!! :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead

Newsletters can go to existing as well as old users.  They have to be interesting.  So maybe instead of listing just the Latest Tour Winners how about a short piece on what planes they got their kills in, made their bomb drops from, etc.  You could also feature something about a plane you have just released, an explanation of the different type of Ords to load and why. A write up on KOTH, frames etc.  (You guys have a lot of content on your site that is, well sort of hidden, that would make for great copy.)

With a newsletter you need to worry about subscription stuff  - Text only user, HTLMx, mobile, large format etc.  Purges etc.  And there are companies that can help (do not know about cost/effectiveness).

But with a newsletter in our mailboxes, you get to old subscribers, infrequent users (who might just be a keystroke away from becoming an old subscriber), and potentially new customers who get newsletters forward to them. 


But anyway, as I was saying  - yea the HE-162 would be a fun addition.
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: He-162
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2014, 01:49:06 PM »
Having done a great deal of marketing, though only an expert by trial and error, targeting marketing will work.

The primary means would be the internet. It can not only be hyper surgical, it also controls for the primary tool necessary to play AH, which is having a computer.

A method that AH could use is to ask their current users to allow AH to use their emails with Facebook. Facebook will go through their data base, match the emails and then almost instantly create a basic profile of Facebook accounts that play AH. AH could then pay to only send ads to those Facebook account holders. This would likely be the best bang for the buck advertising they could do.

The creepy aspect is sharing of Facebook pages. I suspect AH would need to sign a limited disclosure agreement with all of us. I would bet that 70% plus have Facebook accounts.

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Offline morfiend

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Re: He-162
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2014, 07:04:35 PM »
Having done a great deal of marketing, though only an expert by trial and error, targeting marketing will work.

The primary means would be the internet. It can not only be hyper surgical, it also controls for the primary tool necessary to play AH, which is having a computer.

A method that AH could use is to ask their current users to allow AH to use their emails with Facebook. Facebook will go through their data base, match the emails and then almost instantly create a basic profile of Facebook accounts that play AH. AH could then pay to only send ads to those Facebook account holders. This would likely be the best bang for the buck advertising they could do.

The creepy aspect is sharing of Facebook pages. I suspect AH would need to sign a limited disclosure agreement with all of us. I would bet that 70% plus have Facebook accounts.





  Boo havent you "liked" AH on FB yet?    While facebook may target certain people,it would never target me... :uhoh   Simply because I dont go on facebook.

 Awhile back HTC put an ad on Canadian history channel,during a show called Air Aces. Seems the return wasnt worth it and thats with much cheaper Canadian aire time.

    It would seem to me the best thing we as players can do is use the good old word of mouth thing and let people know about the game we all play.



    :salute

PS:  The 162 should be added just after many others that are more important!

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: He-162
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2014, 09:35:43 AM »
I think introducing more of the peculiar limited service aircraft and vehicles like the He 162 (i.e. m26 Pershing, Meteor, Sturmtiger, many others etc.) would be important in AH as it would attract many new players to the game. Booku perk points cost of course... <S>
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 09:40:41 AM by Hetzer7 »

Offline EagleDNY

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Re: He-162
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2014, 02:27:08 PM »
Biggest problem with the He-162 is the small fuel load - remember it was a launch, make a pass at the bomber stream, and head for home plane.   IRL the plane only had a 30-minute fuel capacity, which becomes 15 minutes in the MA at x2 burn.   At that rate it is more like the Me-163 - useful maybe for HQ defense, but not really good for general use.   

Offline Wmaker

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Re: He-162
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2014, 02:40:34 PM »
 IRL the plane only had a 30-minute fuel capacity, which becomes 15 minutes in the MA at x2 burn.

Along with the non-existent rear view and rather average armament I'd consider that very short endurance as a very interesting challenge to get most out of it.

Not a priority in anyway, but what makes it interesting in my mind is the fact that it holds couple key advantages over the Me262 (clearly better thrust to weight ratio and much lighter wing loading) while having those significant drawbacks as well.
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Offline Denniss

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Re: He-162
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2014, 04:45:36 PM »
The He 162 had fuel for about 50 minutes, at least it was planned to use larger wing tanks to achieve this. The a/c was still in a transition status were lots of changes were incorporated during the initial production ramp-up.
But it had still less fuel per engine than the Me 262.
Also the often claimed 30 min flight time is for low alt where the engine was known to have high fuel consumption (which was lower at higher alts).