Boom n Zoom Problems (Typhoon)

[1stpar3]

sorry PUMA44,
I should have followed the discussion to the end, as you did explain it a bit. MY bad! A bit less frustrated now. Thank you.

[The Fugitive]

PUMa44,
This is the second post of yours I have seen today where you mention a lack of explanation of lift vector and other terms. Could you please EXPLAIN those items instead of just noting their absence? Please!!!! It is leading to great frustration I read your post thinking " okay, here comes the correct way to do this" only to find a dead end. I have a basic understanding but need to understand the details.

The lift vector is like an arrow pointed out the top of your head.....unless you were sitting on your head then it would be out you butt.... ok  

As your wing generate lift the plane goes up, so the vector is always up out of your head. Now what you use this "pointing device" for is another thing. Pointing your lift vector to a spot ahead of the other plane means your "in plane", meaning your tracking the same general path as the other guy. Pointing it to one side or the other means your out of plane, NOT tracking the others path. While being "in plane" with the other guy, if you point your lift vector ahead of his path you are cutting the corner.... and burning more E in most cases, or pointing it behind you are lag turning, or just following.

If a bad guy does a flat turn say, and you roll your lift vector 45 degree out of plane and pull up your into the start of a high yo-yo. As you come up over the top you roll your lift vector back the other way and point it back at the bad guy to drop back in a close.

This how I've understood it. I maybe  100% wrong   but thats how I understand it.

[FLS]

You also use lift vector to set your pursuit curve when you can't point your nose.

[Puma44]

sorry PUMA44,
I should have followed the discussion to the end, as you did explain it a bit. MY bad! A bit less frustrated now. Thank you.

Here's a diagram found by googling "lift vector" .

PUMa44,
This is the second post of yours I have seen today where you mention a lack of explanation of lift vector and other terms. Could you please EXPLAIN those items instead of just noting their absence? Please!!!! It is leading to great frustration I read your post thinking " okay, here comes the correct way to do this" only to find a dead end. I have a basic understanding but need to understand the details.

Yep, it is frustrating, especially when some are explaining how they do it with no reference to the basics.  It's hard to imagine how frustrating it is for players new to the game when the "how to" explanation is " when you see this, do this move" and it doesn't work for them.  There are numerous great references explaining BFM and ACM that can be had by simply using a favorite search engine. 

Reading up on the basics is a great way to have a foundation to start learning from.  When reading someone's explaination of how they do it, it'll be evident if they know the basic fundamentals, or not. 

So, back to the lift vector.  Fugitive presented a pretty good explaination.  Once the basic concept of lift vector is understood, it can be used to get "in plane" with an opponent.  By matching the opponent's lift vector, you are "in plane".  Then it's a matter of closing to your desired guns range, applying the appropriate lead for gun convergence, turning on the guns and drilling him to dust.

Learn the basics and start practicing.  Recommend practicing in the DA or TA.  If you need help, ask for it.  There are several around who have the fundamentals down and know what they are doing.

[1stpar3]

There it is!!! That's is exactly what I thought you guys were talking about. I was confused but the point this at that stuff was giving me doubts. Thanks for explaining it. Some times the basic understandings don't mix with the ACM terms I guess. Now that I know not to sit upside down and thus pulling maneuvers out of my butt, I am better situated!!! Thanks again fellas

[Scca]

You seem to have some level of success against your opponents.  But, the discussion of lift vector and BFM/ACM fundamentals seems to be missing in your discussion.  For example, pointing your wing at the opponent isn't a valid fundamental term.  There are a number of scenarios that come to mind that would simply confuse someone new to the game and air combat by "pointing their wing" at the opponent.  Its important to know, apply, and teach the fundamentals when introducing it to new players, otherwise, confusion will exist.....followed by frustration.  

I am glad you further explained yourself as this above was even less helpful that "point your wing at him" which I actually understood, and was a very good layman's way of answering the question. Appreciate that some try to dumb down the jargon for the newer folks, know their heart's in the right place and cut them some slack  


As other mentioned, it's a good idea to do some studying on BFM (basic flight maneuvers), and ACM (air combat maneuvers) so when knowledgeable folks like Puma44 answer your question, you will know what he's saying.  There is a great deal of information here, and sometimes it can be overwhelming.  

[morfiend]

I am glad you further explained yourself as this above was even less helpful that "point your wing at him" which I actually understood, and was a very good layman's way of answering the question. Appreciate that some try to dumb down the jargon for the newer folks, know their heart's in the right place and cut them some slack  


As other mentioned, it's a good idea to do some studying on BFM (basic flight maneuvers), and ACM (air combat maneuvers) so when knowledgeable folks like Puma44 answer your question, you will know what he's saying.  There is a great deal of information here, and sometimes it can be overwhelming.  

  I couldnt agree more!

  1 thing it helps the trainers help you,if you have a basic understanding of BFM,atleast what the terms mean that can save alot of time and effort.

  Generally I spend about an hour with a player,anymore than that and it's too much to take in and I get too tired....     If a trainer has to explain every term,such as what a high yoyo is or what a chandell is then half the time is waisted of explainations and not on flying.

  In saying this I speak for myself,I'm sure other trainers approach this in their own way.


   

[FLS]

Good point Morf, everything you learn on your own will help. 

But if anyone needs help with basics, explanations, or learning BFM we do that too.   

[Puma44]

As other mentioned, it's a good idea to do some studying on BFM (basic flight maneuvers), and ACM (air combat maneuvers) so when knowledgeable folks like Puma44 answer your question, you will know what he's saying.  There is a great deal of information here, and sometimes it can be overwhelming.   

Great point about doing self study.  .  Yes, it can be overwhelming, especially when someone uses made up terminology that those new to air combat won't find in publications written by subject matter experts. 

[morfiend]

Good point Morf, everything you learn on your own will help. 

But if anyone needs help with basics, explanations, or learning BFM we do that too.   

  Agreed, and I hope that didnt come across in the wrong manner as I'm always more than happy to explain things to players!

   That said I see it all to often a player asks for "dogfighting lessons" and they have no idea of basic flight maneuvers,then I say to do an immelman turn and they dont know what it is.

   If a player did as Puma suggests and uses their favourite search engine to look up BFM/ACM so that they have an idea of the terms,it would help myself to spend more time teaching the moves than explaining what I'm talking about.