Author Topic: SB2C  (Read 1232 times)

Offline ONTOS

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2014, 09:47:00 AM »
I like it, don't ask me why, I just do.

Offline Skull-1

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2014, 10:49:55 AM »
How would he do that? with one barrel shooting around the right side of the tail and the other around the left? and not too low of course because there are also the elevators in the way...
 

Yep.  Not a perfect system but...as Oldman said, Sakai would have a thing or two to say about tail gunners.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 10:55:25 AM by Skull-1 »

Offline Skull-1

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2014, 10:50:57 AM »
I like it, don't ask me why, I just do.



My thoughts exactly.  For some reason I love this airplane. 

Offline Skull-1

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2014, 10:53:35 AM »
I've never seen anywhere that gives an actual tonnage figure for the Helldiver, whereas the Dauntless I see frequent citations of over 500,000 tons sunk.

The closest I come to a hard number for the Helldiver is a combined score of ~175,000 tons spread between VB-15 (SB2C) and VT-15 (TBM) from May - November 1944.

Yep, but people state it was number one with regularity.   Helldivers sank a lot of ships.   Ozawa sure got a taste of that.    It was all downhill for Japan when the SB2C came online.   Timing is everything and sure helped the HD's cause...

Offline ONTOS

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2014, 03:27:30 PM »
Saburo Sakai was actually shot by the tailgunner of a SBD, not a SB2C. This is what I have found by reading different accounts. :salute

Offline Oldman731

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2014, 03:59:14 PM »
Saburo Sakai was actually shot by the tailgunner of a SBD, not a SB2C. This is what I have found by reading different accounts.


True, no SB2Cs in service in August of 1942, nor for quite some time thereafter.  For years people thought he was sneaking up on TBFs, but later research showed it was a Dauntless formation.  He, of course, thought the planes were F4Fs.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2014, 04:14:50 PM »
Saburo Sakai was actually shot by the tailgunner of a SBD, not a SB2C. This is what I have found by reading different accounts. :salute

Like the SB2C, the rear gunner also had to contend with the tail blocking the dead 6 fire lane in a SBD.  Even with that obstruction, the tail gun was still able to engage planes on its six position, as Sakai could attest to.  At least, that's what I gathered from Oldman's post.

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Offline Zimme83

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2014, 04:27:49 PM »
Japan never had escorted convoys so sinking merchant ships should have been very easy. So maybe the HD surpassed the SBD (haven't found any evidence for it dough) but nevertheless, it was the SBD that defeated the Japanese Navy and helped the U.S Navy turning the tide.

''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2014, 05:31:00 PM »
Japan never had escorted convoys so sinking merchant ships should have been very easy. So maybe the HD surpassed the SBD (haven't found any evidence for it dough) but nevertheless, it was the SBD that defeated the Japanese Navy and helped the U.S Navy turning the tide.



The Japanese did escort their convoys when possible.
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
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Offline Saxman

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2014, 09:07:13 PM »
Yep, but people state it was number one with regularity.   Helldivers sank a lot of ships.   Ozawa sure got a taste of that.    It was all downhill for Japan when the SB2C came online.   Timing is everything and sure helped the HD's cause...

Yes, but what was their source? LOTS of "common knowledge" gets passed around without anyone actually checking the original source. And notably, the tonnage claim for the Helldiver is NOT mentioned on Wikipedia, and that's the sort of factoid that would almost certainly find its way IF a source was available for it.

You can't forget that in one day at Midway, the Dauntless sank in excess of 120,000 tons. Meanwhile two of the Japanese carriers sunk at Phillippine Sea were recorded by submarines, and the Helldivers at Leyte didn't even manage half of the Midway tonnage against Ozawa's task group (splitting credits with the TBMs, while Chiyoda was ultimately finished by naval gunfire).

And Japanese naval power had already been broken LONG before the Helldiver came online. Philippine Sea and Leyte were essentially the last gasps of the IJN.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 09:09:09 PM by Saxman »
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Offline Arlo

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Re: SB2C
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2014, 10:42:00 PM »
I wouldn't mind seeing this one modeled before the SB2c for early Pac events: