Elite dangerous

[Nathan60]

Ripley just out of curiosity what is it you do for a living does it involve 3d rendering or display?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Ripley just out of curiosity what is it you do for a living does it involve 3d rendering or display?

Nothing. I'm just curious.

[Arlo]

You're having a technical argument about game graphics with a developer of a graphic game and behaving as though you are more of an authority on the subject. I don't buy this being a 'curiosity' thing.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

You're having a technical argument about game graphics with a developer of a graphic game and behaving as though you are more of an authority on the subject. I don't buy this being a 'curiosity' thing.

I'm not behaving as anything else than a person with two eyes and a brain. You can see the facts as well as I can.

[Skuzzy]

I guess it's easier to resort to ad hominem instead of explaining why a game client would need to render anything that is outside it's field of view and thus negating completely the effect of the size of the map of the equation.

The only thing I said about rendering anything outside the view was to define what you said (i.e. clipping).  I do not know any game client which renders anything that is not on the screen.  Like I said before, that was all flushed out over 20 years ago.  Why am I using 20 years?  Well, I happen to have completed a game engine exactly 20 years ago this month and it did clipping, culling, mipmapping.  All those things you think are the domain for 'more developed game engines', which is just nonsense.  The first thing any 3D graphic coder/designer learns is, "The fastest triangle you will draw, is the one you do not need to draw."

If War Thunder etc. can produce stunning visuals and they have a similar view distance and field of view compared to AH, how would map size take effect (to graphics) if we forget the added load of tracking larger amount of objects in virtual space?

WT does not have near the same view distance, nor the same default field of view, and we do track an unlimited number of objects.  All those things impact performance.  Visuals are more about artwork than anything else.  They have 9GB of data, we currently have far less than 500MB.

Does WT look better than the current Aces High release?  Yep, it sure does.

You can compare the situation like if you were playing nethack. You stumble through a vast dungeon and you have a lantern as your light source (field of view). Even though the dungeon is huge, you only see the are that your lantern can light up at any time. The single game client is like a character in the night with it's lantern, a bubble of 'light' in the dark.

Why is my analogy wrong, please I would really like to know.

It is based on assumptions which have no basis in reality.  Nothing you have said has been constructive.  Each time I have pointed out a correction you have countered with misdirection and defensive posturing.  Or you have simply resorted to making outlandish statements, which have no basis in reality.

By the way, people who are simply 'curious' about topics, ask questions.  They do not make definitive statements about topics they have limited knowledge of.

[Nathan60]

In other news, my cobra has made it to SOL. That is all. Capitol ships are scary 

LOl I went in a sold my exploration data on the way in I hit a NAV point and took some bounties in my adder. I had fun with that so I bought an eagle and kitted it out 25 minutes later back at the nav point  Im up to 103k In bounties only 200 rnds in each multicannon an imperial clipper down to 10% hull and the damn thing belly flops me and takes me out. So I buy another eagle and thus starts a long and frustrating morning in which I probably killed 200+k in bounties but kept dying  so only made like 80 can be frustrating some time lol I'm done with my break from exploring eagle is back in the shed until I need another break and I head back in.

[Nathan60]

careful Ripley

[Gman]

WT does not have near the same view distance, nor the same default field of view, and we do track an unlimited number of objects.  All those things impact performance.  Visuals are more about artwork than anything else.  They have 9GB of data, we currently have far less than 500MB.

Does WT look better than the current Aces High release?  Yep, it sure does.

I always like how HTC is candid about this subject when they chose to speak about it - for all the wanking about graphics, it seems to me (this is a curious question, not a statement, just an asssumption) that it's either one thing or the other with current CPU and GPU power - have a huge environment with lots of tracked objects, or the "look at the pretty lights".  Question part of it - do you ever think a time will come where you can do both Skuzzy?  Based on how CPU and GPU power is increasing, any guess of when in the future it could be possible?  Slap WT background graphics on HTC plane models and game structure, and it's no question to anyone that HTC would have the most superior flight sim product anywhere, end of story.  What we're seeing with the new screen shots looks like a progression towards something along these lines.

By the way, people who are simply 'curious' about topics, ask questions.  They do not make definitive statements about topics they have limited knowledge of.

Hah, perfect.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

The only thing I said about rendering anything outside the view was to define what you said (i.e. clipping).  I do not know any game client which renders anything that is not on the screen.  Like I said before, that was all flushed out over 20 years ago.  Why am I using 20 years?  Well, I happen to have completed a game engine exactly 20 years ago this month and it did clipping, culling, mipmapping.  All those things you think are the domain for 'more developed game engines', which is just nonsense.  The first thing any 3D graphic coder/designer learns is, "The fastest triangle you will draw, is the one you do not need to draw."

WT does not have near the same view distance, nor the same default field of view, and we do track an unlimited number of objects.  All those things impact performance.  Visuals are more about artwork than anything else.  They have 9GB of data, we currently have far less than 500MB.

Does WT look better than the current Aces High release?  Yep, it sure does.

It is based on assumptions which have no basis in reality.  Nothing you have said has been constructive.  Each time I have pointed out a correction you have countered with misdirection and defensive posturing.  Or you have simply resorted to making outlandish statements, which have no basis in reality.

By the way, people who are simply 'curious' about topics, ask questions.  They do not make definitive statements about topics they have limited knowledge of.

My curiosity was based on a few observations I've made about the AH game engine in the past. Such as when ground clutter put clients on their knees or when I had a flaky graphics driver and textures were missing from my cockpit. Sure enough, planes which were supposed to be blocked behind panels and wings were beautifully rendered and visible through the missing texture.

This lead me to believe that perhaps AH does not employ such techniques.

[Nathan60]

well with 1.1 they completely screwed up how I explore, being able to see if someone has been to a system before you makes me pretty much immediately move on lol. On the plus side there are quite a few planets and stars with my name next to them now . Damn lag spike right before server reset jus about killed me as when I finally got done with the lag I was at 70% hull and at 340+ temp used all my heatsinks real fast. I did find planet Skidmark tho

and this guy

and that beam lasers will leave heated metal in their wake where ever they hit

[Nathan60]

My curiosity was based on a few observations I've made about the AH game engine in the past. Such as when ground clutter put clients on their knees or when I had a flaky graphics driver and textures were missing from my cockpit. Sure enough, planes which were supposed to be blocked behind panels and wings were beautifully rendered and visible through the missing texture.

This lead me to believe that perhaps AH does not employ such techniques.

so knowing your graphics card wasn't up to snuff you assumed it was AH coding?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

so knowing your graphics card wasn't up to snuff you assumed it was AH coding?

The graphics card was more than 'up to snuff' there was some glitch that made textures transparent. If clipping was used by the engine, areas which were supposed to be covered by the texture should have been blank AFAIK. Yet you could see all the terrain and the planes normally. At one point you could also see hit flashes through your textures when deflection shooting, made tracking shots easyer (this was a bug that got fixed in later revisions of AH). That also shouldn't be possible if the engine really did clip the view.

So, while I'm not an expert on the subject, these few observations have made me curious to these questions.

Another question is that is HTC planning to get rid of the ancient 500Mb limitation? It has long since ceased to be a virtue and become a burden. In the day and age of megabit internet speeds being the norm, download sizes could be vastly increased and through that textures improved.

[Nathan60]

The graphics card was more than 'up to snuff' there was some glitch that made textures transparent. If clipping was used by the engine, areas which were supposed to be covered by the texture should have been blank AFAIK. Yet you could see all the terrain and the planes normally. At one point you could also see hit flashes through your textures when deflection shooting, made tracking shots easyer (this was a bug that got fixed in later revisions of AH). That also shouldn't be possible if the engine really did clip the view.

So, while I'm not an expert on the subject, these few observations have made me curious to these questions.

have you ever looked at the skin files or models(whatever they are called) of the vehicles in AH? they are not all 1 piece and do in fact get put together by the system just like all games do AFAIK, so when things aren't all one solid piece and your card is a dud you will get artifacts no matter what game you are playing. Nothing modeled in 3d is all one piece so you will get these glitches in any game. Im no expert either and Im sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along to explain this better than me.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

have you ever looked at the skin files or models(whatever they are called) of the vehicles in AH? they are not all 1 piece and do in fact get put together by the system just like all games do AFAIK, so when things aren't all one solid piece and your card is a dud you will get artifacts no matter what game you are playing. Nothing modeled in 3d is all one piece so you will get these glitches in any game. Im no expert either and Im sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along to explain this better than me.

What I meant had nothing to do with the textures themselves. I suspected that wings, panels etc. which according to the model should have been non-transparent, should have blocked the terrain and other fighters in the engine thus not getting rendered. In the event of a missing texture, you should see only a black hole if the engine did clip and leave the area unrendered. By seeing everything get rendered normally despite they should have been totally invisible at that position could only lead to the question - does AH really clip.

[ImADot]

I would prefer the 3D discussion to move to its own thread.

Nathan, the beam laser "melted metal track" has been there all along - it's not new to 1.1. You just had to get close enough to the other ship to see it. And even if someone else already "discovered" a system, as long as it shows "undiscovered" by your ship's computer, you can scan it and sell the data too. You just won't get your name in lights as "first discovered by".