Why is it...

[LilMak]

The Axis always seem to have the pinnacle aircraft (K-4 in Decebmer for example) while the Allies always seem hampered.

I realize the German set is seriously lacking an earlier high altitude version of the 109 but the continued substitute of the K-4 to make up for that is getting tiresome IMO. This is especially true when you saddle the Allies with 51Bs instead of Ds and the uber ride for the Allies is a Typh. Why not the Tempest? Unlike the K-4 it actually was deployed in the summer of 44 along with the 51D if memory serves.

I understand playability and all that but it seems to be a continuing theme of FSO (with the exception of the 45 ETO setup) for the year or two that I've been involved. Perhaps, in years past, it was the Allies who were favored and that's why things are the way they are now and I'm just out of line. It seems, every time I look at the write up for these event I find myself rolling my eyes and thinking "Here we go again."

Am I imagining this? Sour grapes?  

Please. In no way am I trying to cut down anyone here or pick on the CMs, I'm just throwing my opinion in the ring.

[Big Rat]

The K4's are a max of 24 so they will be very limited.  The lack of "G" series AS versions of the 109's has been a glaring hole for quite a while now.  I'm not overly worried in this setup with the B ponies being unlimited and faster then anything else except the K4. 

 
BigRat 

[Devil 505]

The K4's are a max of 24 so they will be very limited.  The lack of "G" series AS versions of the 109's has been a glaring hole for quite a while now.  I'm not overly worried in this setup with the B ponies being unlimited and faster then anything else except the K4. 

Indeed. Although, I'd like to see the P-47 minimum raised to better reflect the actual distribution of fighter types.

[ELD66]

@Lilmak
 It usually is based upon the release date or first action of each plane. Remember that America, Russia and France demilitarized after WW1, but Japan and Germany and Italy researched and by 1930 had the best planes, and ships and making breakthroughs with tanks.

 One of my western civilization professors once said that the allies only won WW2 by persistence and American industry. So if many different things didn't happen and America stayed out of the war even for 1 or 2 more years then Axis would of knocked out UK and China. With them out of the way the way would of been made clear for the conquest of USSR. For even with the Russians numbers If Japan, Germany and Italy, and by that point Ottoman Turks would of overwhelmed them and that would of been that.

[LilMak]

The K4's are a max of 24 so they will be very limited.  The lack of "G" series AS versions of the 109's has been a glaring hole for quite a while now.  I'm not overly worried in this setup with the B ponies being unlimited and faster then anything else except the K4. 

 
BigRat 

Yea I get that and I've been cool with it. Maybe I should flip it around to show what I mean...

What if the German were limited to the G-14 with 24 and the rest were G6s and G2s and A5s while the Allies have 51Ds, 38Js, and the Temp was limited to 24. You think the Luftwaffe boys wouldn't be screaming about that here? I know they would.

The problem I have is not the substitution of the K4. I get it and am willing to live with it until the AS versions show up. What bugs me is the further trimming back of the Allied set in the Axis favor which feels (true or not) like an imbalance. Especially since the Allies had the aircraft available at the supposed time of the engagement and the Axis did not. The Typh is a complete joke as a limited aircraft for the Allies when you compare the performance numbers against the K4. Even the Temp is a turd compared to the K-4 above 20K.

[Devil 505]

Maybe you don't understand that the Bravo is the better Pony. With the exception of the 2 extra guns, the D is inferior (although only slightly) in every category.

Max speed Mil Power (51-B/51-D): 440@30K/435@26K
Max speed WEP (51-B/51-D): 447@29K/442@25K
Climb rate @ 20K (51-B/51-D): 2750ft per min MIL, 2850ft per min WEP/ 2400ft per min with either power setting.

Compare that slight disparity with the extreme difference between the K-4 and G-14.

Max speed Mil Power (K-4/G-14): 437@26K/389@23K
Max speed WEP (K-4/G-14): 451@23/408@16K
Climb rate @ 20K (K-4/G-14): 3000ft per min MIL, 3600ft per min WEP/ 2600ft per min MIL, 3500ft per min WEP

Also consider that all of the Allied planes handle much better than the 109s at altitudes over 20K.

I should also remind you that the B-26 is the fastest bomber besides the B-29. The allies are clearly the favorite with the planeset as is.

[ELD66]

Yea I get that and I've been cool with it. Maybe I should flip it around to show what I mean...

What if the German were limited to the G-14 with 24 and the rest were G6s and G2s and A5s while the Allies have 51Ds, 38Js, and the Temp was limited to 24. You think the Luftwaffe boys wouldn't be screaming about that here? I know they would.

The problem I have is not the substitution of the K4. I get it and am willing to live with it until the AS versions show up. What bugs me is the further trimming back of the Allied set in the Axis favor which feels (true or not) like an imbalance. Especially since the Allies had the aircraft available at the supposed time of the engagement and the Axis did not. The Typh is a complete joke as a limited aircraft for the Allies when you compare the performance numbers against the K4. Even the Temp is a turd compared to the K-4 above 20K.

 Do you also know that a P51Bravo is faster, climbs better, is more agile than the P51D? Because we axis boys do.

[LilMak]

Do you also know that a P51Bravo is faster, climbs better, is more agile than the P51D? Because we axis boys do.

I know the B pony is less of a threat to me in the MA even though better sticks tend to fly them. I would imagine you Luft boys would know the same thing. Those two guns mean something in the FSO where you only have one clip and you're spraying trying to protect bombers from 30mm snipers. And lets not count out intangibles like visibility and familiarity. A B-26 at 21k isn't fast enough to outrun a Brewster diving on it from 30k. I think the Dragon scenario proved that quite well when B29 formations got virtually annihilated by slow Japanese planes despite the Axis demanding lower bomber altitudes before the first frame even started.

[Devil 505]

Honestly though, I consider both models Pony to be an equal threat to me. I'm sure it does to most Axis fighter pilots. Fact is, if the Pony pilot cant hit with 4 guns, then the 2 extra mean nothing.

I think you overlook the number advantage the allies have. The only plane that can compete against the Pony 1-on-1 is the K-4. And there will only be 24 of them. I expect that every Allied CiC will stack your side with more than double that many Ponies - as they should. In fact, if your side has 150 pilots, you could use 100 ponies and still meet your minimums for the other aircraft.

I'm starting to think that I want some more K-4s. 

[LilMak]

The number advantage (I assume you're talking about altitude) is nil when you push the combat below 23K. And if 4 50s is just as good as 6 then 2 is just as good as four. Perhaps we should just disable the 30mm and let the K4s work with what's left. That's fair based on the stated arguments.

Then you can have all the K4s you want. 

[Bino]

Please note that both the B-26 and JU-88 have NO minimum required number in this setup. Use of those two aircraft by the C-in-C is optional.

[FBDragon]

The best way to handle this is to KNOW your aircraft, Mak, you do things with the jug that most others couldn't even dream of. Myself, I do things with the 190a8 that they keep telling me cant be done lol ie. shoot down pony's in a turnfight. Know your plane, that will take care of any handicaps that there might be!!!