Can we do something about suicide HQ bombers?

[The Fugitive]

maybe there should be some incentive to have you try to land them back to base?

I ALWAYS try to land when I take a bomber up.

[WWhiskey]

maybe there should be some incentive to have you try to land them back to base?

sure ,, but without it,, I'm not gonna stay in them for one pilot to up over and over, till he finally kills me!

If the trips paid a lot more to land than bail,, more folks would land them!

[lyric1]

With the dar it is all or nothing. You ussually have little or no warning as the guy runs NOE till he starts the HQ flashing and even if you launch the fastest plane from the nearest base you can't get there in time to stop him. BANG dot and bar dar is down for 20-30 minutes depending on how many run supplies. You can't use dar from another base to guess where they might be coming from because there is no dar period. If they are dumb enough to fly through a circle to get a base flashing then you get something, but half the time it's a bailing buff doing a milk run 

 

Well this we can agree on.
Put the mega strat back into effect & place HQ dead in the middle. No NOE buffs are going to get to HQ with all the flack towers at the mega strat arrangement.

[bozon]

Why did bomber drones get added to AH?

IIRC, drones were added when the bomb sight was made (more) realistic.  After a short time passed, the complaints about the difficulty of the new bomb sight resulted in its elimination and a return to the old, simple sight (the more accurate sight still exists in AvA and some events), but the drones stayed.

Pretty much.
HTC intended for bombers to do more carpet bombing style runs where it takes several bombs dropped to insure a hit. The full manual calibration reduced bombing accuracy (and for some players prove entirely too difficult). As compensation, HTC tripled the player's ordnance by allowing drones - so he can pickle 3 times on one structure (say, a little short, on target and a little long as see through F6) and if just one of those hit, it will do the same damage as releasing 3 bombs with laser accuracy from a single bomber. In addition it increased the bomber defensive power (because bomber players are unable fly with wingmen it seems - how often do you see a pair of bomber formation? how often do you see two fighters in formation?) and gave the player "3 strikes" before being sent to the tower.

The manual method proved too difficult to the point-and-click crowd. It also seems that players psychology cannot accept "wasted" bombs and they got frustrated with the need to drop multiple bombs in order to kill something as soft as the dar tower. So, HTC went for a middle ground - players still need to calibrate, but the process is a simple "hold Y", takes only 3 seconds or so, and the accuracy is perfect. Laser accuracy was returned, bombs hardly ever miss again and a single *player* can now deliver tree times the amount of ordnance he could before - thus a single lanc formation can shut down a V-base or all FH on A-base from 25k, or kill HQ. It also takes 3 times the ammo of fighters to stop a single bomber player from reaching the target - Thus, two noobs in B17 will send me home with guns dry, while two noobs in fighters will die quicker, pose near zero threat to me and leave me with 80% of my ammo to shoot down more.

disclaimer:
I am for keeping formations in AH and making them widely available!
My beef is with the absolute bombing accuracy, bomber formations that dive away at 450 mph while gunning, and the treatment of drones as disposable bomb-carts.

[caldera]

Well this we can agree on.
Put the mega strat back into effect & place HQ dead in the middle. No NOE buffs are going to get to HQ with all the flack towers at the mega strat arrangement.

Or a variation on that idea: Make each individual strat as big as the old mega strat and put the HQ in the middle of a large, stand-alone city.


Once more, I will also chime in to say that losing HQ should have nothing to do with radar.  Tie it's destruction in with another effect.  Much better options have been presented in previous threads regarding this problem.  Losing darbars is a bad gameplay dynamic.

[Getback]

I've logged after HQ gets hit a number of times. What is annoying is the bombers will bail when you get close. So you just spent a half hour or more climbing only to have them bail. I'd say make the HQ tougher so it takes more than one set of bombers.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea but it use to go in stages where you would lose friendly dar last. (If I remember correctly)

[WWhiskey]

Well this we can agree on.
Put the mega strat back into effect & place HQ dead in the middle. No NOE buffs are going to get to HQ with all the flack towers at the mega strat arrangement.

have strats in both places, half inside the mega city and half at the other locations, and HQ radar also split, half inside the big city and half at the old location, kill half of it, lose half your radar or reduce the range by half, lose both HQs and lose radar all together like now.
This will make it harder to totally wipe out the strats, and probably less time they will be down, up the perks earned for hitting the strats to keep the bombers coming

[Oddball-CAF]

On a side note,, I shot down a fellow chasing my bombers the other day, finished my bomb runs then bailed

..and you're a member of the "AH Training Corps" ?
 
 

[WWhiskey]

..and you're a member of the "AH Training Corps" ?
 
 

Yes,, do you need GV training?

[icepac]

Make it worthwhile to land the sortie.

I land most of my hq downings and only die when I head back to gun down c47s with the front gun yet landing a hq downing mission only nets you around 1 or 2 perks.

[WWhiskey]

Make it worthwhile to land the sortie.

I land most of my hq downings and only die when I head back to gun down c47s with the front gun yet landing a hq downing mission only nets you around 1 or 2 perks.

exactly!

[kvuo75]

Thus, two noobs in B17 will send me home with guns dry, while two noobs in fighters will die quicker, pose near zero threat to me and leave me with 80% of my ammo to shoot down more.

what do you think that does for new player retention?

[molybdenum]

I've logged after HQ gets hit a number of times. What is annoying is the bombers will bail when you get close. So you just spent a half hour or more climbing only to have them bail

Exactly. I fly buffs 90% of the time (if you don't count wirbs and m3s) and I think it's dishonorable and awful for buff pilots to bomb 'n' bail if there is any con anywhere nearby. The enemy pilot took the time to try to intercept a high alt enemy, only to make him have that time and effort wasted? Totally uncool.
I wish I knew what the solution was, but there should be SOMEthing done that would discourage such behavior. The only new solution I can think of is regular filming of strat raiders and then an outing of those who bomb 'n' bail. Maybe peer pressure will have an effect.

[lyric1]

The only new solution I can think of is regular filming of strat raiders and then an outing of those who bomb 'n' bail. Maybe peer pressure will have an effect.

Join the club.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,358854.0.html

[Crash Orange]

This is another reason I keep asking for perked drones (free lead bomber). If the drones are perked it gives more incentive to bring them back and not treat them like disposable bomb-carts dragged by the lead. All perked rides are free if you land them, but bomb&bail = pay the perks.

Great, get all the bombers flying at 30k, just what the game needs. Like a lot of proposed changes, this one would have unintended consequences that are worse than the original problem.

Overall, I think the effectiveness and vulnerability of bombers in the MA is about right. Plenty of players think worth flying, and plenty of players think it's worth intercepting them, which leads to good fights. That's the goal, right? The HQ problem is a problem with the target, not the bombers. It needs to be harder to do, or it needs to have a less drastic effect on the whole side. My preference would be the latter. Taking out dar for an entire side is bad for game play. Sure, sure, you should intercept the bombers, whatever: it's still bad for game play. Given that there's absolutely no realism or simulation basis for this mechanic, if it's bad for game play, it should be changed. Or just eliminate the HQ concept completely: strats are certainly worth hitting, but porked strats are less likely to cause people to log off in frustration.

Bombing and bailing is irritating, but it's been talked to death and good solutions remain elusive. Penalizing bailing just means players will deliberately lawndart or even shut down the game to accomplish the same thing. But punishing players for legitimate crashes/shoot downs or discos more than they already are (like with a big perk loss) would discourage people from flying bombers at all, which would be a worse thing for game play than the occasional bomb-and-bailer.