By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster

[Devil 505]

Yep. I read that wrong. Thought he was in the F4U. Oops.

[Mar]

Yep. I read that wrong. Thought he was in the F4U. Oops.

 

[Rich46yo]

Within its favorite speed range the Brew, like the Wildcat, can really surprise you. And if you cant accelerate fast enough, or they have enough air under them, these old birds can give you a nasty surprise. Plus they are tough and the Brew at least is very responsive to the stick. I dont underestimate them when I see them cause very likely there is someone in them who knows what they are doing.

I like upping them in CV battles up to 5K and trying to avoid the deck with them.

[Gman]

I agree with that Rich.  Also, you should give the Ki43 a whirl for a dozen hops or so if you haven't.  IMO it's the plane capable of surprising folks the most, hands down, and that includes Brewster pilots.  I haven't lost to one yet in the Ki43 in a 1 or even 2 or 3 on one fight.  Brews, since they almost always go for a turn type fight - exactly what a Ki43 pilot would want - can absolutely demolish the Brew, it's fun to do, and watch.  I would say nobody is going to be posting or asking about "how the Ki43 keeps up to that P51 or whatever" like they do with the Brew, the Achilles heel of the 43 is putting the nose down, over 350 it's adios both elevators or ailerons, and a funny film of rolling around trying to get it home without those vators.

[Zimme83]

Ki-43 is a fun bird but much more limited than the Brew. A Brew low and slow with a Ki-43 is doomed because it cant even run away. With some alt dough, the Brew have a lot more tools to use. But the Ki-43 is faster and down on the deck it will have all advantages.

But other than the Ki-43 i dont see a problem with engaging in a turn fight with almost all other birds while in a Brew, A6M2 might be an exception but an A6M5 isnt so superior in turn rate that u cannot beat it.

[Rich46yo]

Ive been meaning to spend some time in the KI-43. Thing is I have such limited time to play and its so damn hard finding quality fights. Most of the time your at one end of a picking contest. I often up on defense with all kinds of energy fighters 10K over me. How that is fun for them I dont know. I do know when a fight is close to equal the KI-84 is pretty amazing. I had a good 2 on 1 vs a N1K and 84 yesterday and of course had to dodge pickers.

Im going to start only looking for CV fights and stop bombing the things. It seems the only places nowdays to find fights where "E" is equal. I want to spend more time in Zero-san as well.

[FLS]

Im going to start only looking for CV fights and stop bombing the things. It seems the only places nowdays to find fights where "E" is equal. I want to spend more time in Zero-san as well.

Why not just ask people to duel?

[Zimme83]

It doesn't bleed less energy, like the Zeke it just needs less energy to turn well.

Forgot to reply earlier.
Wrong. A very good turn fighter loose less energy than a bad one if they do a turn at same speed and G-loading. its because the good turn fighter has a lower wing loading and can do the turn at a lower AoA. This means it will have a lot less drag.



For ex: The A6m2 can do a 3G turn at 150mph and gain E while an I-16 doing the same turn will loose E.

[FLS]

Is it losing less or gaining more? 

The bigger factor is the Zeke having a higher specific excess power below 250mph. 

[Zimme83]

Gain. Since it will have the ability to accelerate during that turn it can gain E.

[Zimme83]

But back to the point: A pony w full flaps and 25% fuel has a sustained turn rate at about 17dps at 125mph. This means that it will not only be outturned massivley by a clean Brewster, the Brewster can sustsain a 24dps turn at 130 mph - The Brewster is faster than the pony.

It all come down to the fact that as the speed goes down the Brewster (or zeke) first will bleed of less E than the pony in the turn and as the speed drops even more, maintain or even gain E when the Pony still bleeding of his. And still be able to outturn the Pony.

[FLS]

You already agreed it's not losing less it's gaining more.   

Semantics. Losing implies drag, gaining implies thrust.

[atlau]

Zimme.. where did you pull that diagram from?

atlau

[Zimme83]

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=270762.0

Zimme.. where did you pull that diagram from?

atlau

You already agreed it's not losing less it's gaining more.   

Semantics. Losing implies drag, gaining implies thrust.

Loosing means that the amount of alt and/or speed is decreasing, gaining means alt and/or speed is increasing. Depends on where on the diagram u are if u loosing, maintaining or gaining E. But yes - its about thrust-to-drag ratio. Just depends on how u want to say it. A Brewster has a lot less thrust than a Pony but in this case the thrust to drag ratio is better for the Brewster. Lower AoA = lower drag = Better E managment.

[FLS]

Higher specific excess power = more available g = better turn.

We agree on the result at least.