Author Topic: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see  (Read 8067 times)

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2015, 01:51:46 PM »
http://www.taphilo.com/history/8thaf/8aflosses.shtml

8th AF - Heavy Bomber Heaviest Mission Losses

Offline save

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2015, 03:37:13 PM »
Thank you for the link!

One of the best book about Defense of the Reich is "The Luftwaffe over Germany"

ISBN 978-1-85367-712-0
 



My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline Flitze

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2015, 04:52:58 PM »
What kind of damage would a 30mm do to the engine of a plane? I would think it would wreck it to the point where it would stop working immediately. In AH2 though a plane can take a 30mm to the engine and fly with an oil leak for about another 30 seconds.

Günter Rall once had a barrel burst of his engine mounted 30mm cannon. The plane was rocking, the engine stopped working immediately, the plane wasn't flyable anymore and he had to bail.
But damage in real-life was/is varying greatly.

Loose Deuce still active ? Nice to see you, save ! Greets to the squad !
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 05:06:44 PM by Flitze »

Offline save

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2015, 12:40:46 PM »
Heya Grendl, we are still kicking, I think we have a dozen or so active players, some squaddies are in Battle of Stalingrad (Il2)
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline wpeters

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2015, 04:07:29 PM »
Heya Grendl, we are still kicking, I think we have a dozen or so active players, some squaddies are in Battle of Stalingrad (Il2)

I fly on there.  Hit me up some time
LtCondor
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Fighter pilots are either high, or in the process of getting high.🙊
The difference between Dweebs and non dweebs... Dweebs have kills

Offline save

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2015, 04:37:22 AM »
MiloMorai, any info on 15th AF losses ?


63 bombers and 13 escorts was lost 24 april 1944 alone,  some of the "lost" buffs flew to Switzerland.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 05:04:29 AM by save »
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2015, 09:03:29 AM »
Using the date in your post save,

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO) STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 315: 754 bombers and 867 fighters are dispatched to bomb airfields, aircraft production industries and targets of opportunity in Germany; the bomber claim 20-1-36 Luftwaffe aircraft and the fighters claim 124-6-58 fighters; 40 bombers and 17 fighters are lost; details are: ......

 http://www.aircrewremembered.com/USAAFCombatOperations/Apr.44.html#sthash.lm8G7nI3.dpuf

Losses aren't stated for the 15th.

Offline save

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2015, 01:34:43 PM »
Thank MiloMorai, I screw up the dates, it was the 29th april, not any other date.
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline Scherf

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2015, 07:30:40 PM »
Numbers in Richard Davis' book say the highest single-target loss for 15th AF bombers was 25 February '44, mission to Regensburg, 32 bombers lost, though I can't find anything to back that up. A total of 8 bombers were lost the same day over two other targets in Austria.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2015, 09:29:38 PM »
If it was February of 1944, why weren't the bombers being escorted? You sure that wasn't a typo and February of 43?
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Scherf

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2015, 10:32:47 PM »
Don't think the 15th was flying in Feb. 43. Mr. Wiki says 15th flew in support of Big Week, lost 89 buffs.

"The ‘Forgotten Fifteenth’ had paid heavily for its involvement in ‘Big Week’; striking from the south, flying deep penetration missions into Germany itself, the 15th AF’s bombers often flew for long periods without fighter escort, gunning their way in and out of the target area.  In just four days of sorties, the 15th AF had lost 89 bombers and seven fighters from 500 sorties; an attrition rate of 16% of the total bomber sorties flown, and four times as great as the sustainable loss rate."

http://www.globalaviationresource.com/v2/2014/02/20/d-day-70-pt-3-operation-argument-the-big-week-bomber-offensive-february-1944/

Davis says the 15th lost 88 between the 20th and the 25th of September.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Scherf

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2015, 04:48:49 AM »
A little more from that same site:

"The 15th AF encountered the Luftwaffe’s main strength and lost 33 heavy bombers of 176 launched to Regensburg.  By contrast, the 8th AF lost a similar number – 31 aircraft – from a far greater number of sorties flown, with bomber strength numbering more than 700.  It was another firm indication that unescorted heavy bombers could not hope to carry out their missions without severe casualties – the absence of long-range escorts meant that the 15th AF, unlike the 8th AF, bore the brunt of an opportunistic Luftwaffe which employed to devastating effect the tactics honed during combat in northern Europe, suffering interceptions from up to half a dozen single engine fighters at a time, rocket firing bombers and even air-to-air bombing.

In one raid against Steyr on 24 February, for example, all ten 15th AF B-17s in the rearmost formation were systematically shot down; it was clear that regardless of its gradually sapping strength, the Luftwaffe still posed a threat to the Allied Air Forces and when the opportunity arose, it could still deliver a terrible blow to the heavy bombers and their escorts.

Their contribution cannot be overlooked, for the 15th AF’s raids against Messerschmitt factories and other industrial targets had caused significant destruction and production delay and, to the benefit of the 8th AF, drew the Luftwaffe away from the northern target area.  Having been hit hard by ‘Big Week’, the 15th AF withdrew from long-range bomber operations until sufficient escort fighters were available to escort the vulnerable B-17s and B-24s to their targets and back."

Davis' numbers are a bit different - he has a total of 175 15th AF heavies attacking on the 25th, but only 116 of them went to Regensburg, from which, according to him, 32 were lost. The next time the 15th's buffs flew was March 17th.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2015, 08:47:57 AM »
save, this will give you monthly losses. It is broken down as 'due to enemy' and 'other'.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a542518.pdf

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Allied test of German MK108 Mine-Geschoss HE/T round: Must see
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2015, 12:10:14 PM »
The most devastating losses were the two 1943 raids to Schweinfurt and Regensburg. 60 bombers lost on the first raid and 77 on the second. With about twice that number of write-offs from damage. Completely unsustainable and the 8th withdrew from long-range missions for almost half a year until sufficient fighter escorts became available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweinfurt%E2%80%93Regensburg_mission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Raid_on_Schweinfurt
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