p51 zoom climb

[Dragon Tamer]

I want to see this test done with an I-16! 

[xPoisonx]

500 mph in an open cockpit... 

[Someguy63]

500 mph in an open cockpit... 

Very possible.

[xPoisonx]

Very possible.

Not for raynos. He would get tempted to stick his head out the side.

[Someguy63]

Not for raynos. He would get tempted to stick his head out the side.

lol

[darkzking]

Whats wrong with sticking my head out of the sidee ?

[Someguy63]

Whats wrong with sticking my head out of the sidee ?

Your neck would be snapped.

Maybe not that but you'd get some skin blown off.

[darkzking]

i've got a strong neck from my late night "job" .

[Zimme83]

It a lot of factors to concider in this case. In the game u can loose a zoom climb for a lot of reasons even if u are in a better plane. Con having higher initial speed is one but he might also zoom in an angle rather than vertical in order to catch u and in that case he is helped by the lift from the wings.

I havent tested but in the case of ww2 fighters i have hard to belive that engine power alone had any dramatic effect on the zoom ability When compare one fighter with another.  Atleast if u compare planes of the same era.

[hitech]

Skyrs attempt to insinuate that in real life vs AH there are different effects of engine performance with regard to zoom climbs, is nothing but talking out his excrement orifice.

Now he is trying to back pedal on his claim that

Most planes will perform a zoom (ballistic) climb the same. There's virtually no difference. Any differences that are present have NOTHINGto do with climb performance.

by saying he was talking about real life vs AH.


Note the word NOTHING, not words like very little, or is the smallest of factors regarding zoom climb, but the word NOTHING.

Simple test. Take a plane and zoom with engine on and engine off. If climb performance (obviously it will be drastically effected with engine on vs off) has nothing to do with its top out alt of the zoom then the two tests should perform EXACTLY the same i.e. NOTHING different in the results.

Cripes I have done this 100 of times at different throttle setting in real life. With out a doubt my RV zooms higher at higher power settings.

I don't rant like this often, but when someone is trying to argue against basic physics I just want to show them as the knowledgeable person they really are.


HiTech

[Skyyr]

Skyrs attempt to insinuate that in real life vs AH there are different effects of engine performance with regard to zoom climbs, is nothing but talking out his excrement orifice.

Actually, sir, my statement was based only on ingame performance between different aircraft, as Poison aptly exampled. Now, if you're saying that real life performs the same as AH, then my original statement should still stand, as the planes tested showed less than a 500ft variance, despite greatly differing performance. Given that 500ft is not enough to gain an advantage in a pure zoom climb situation (which I can say I do better than most here) and would still keep you in your opponents gun range, my original statement is indeed true.

I never stated once that engine performance didn't matter in real life. We are on a video game forum, and therefore a statement made without subjections or dependencies is assumed to apply to said video game. For example, I might say "Shooting a plane at 800yds is relatively easy" - that is understood to apply to the game, because we are talking about the game and that statement is true within the scope of the game. Applying that same statement to real life gunnery would make it false, as shots were rarely made at even half of that distance. However, no one would reasonably assume that I was talking about real life unless I prefaced my statement with "In real life, 800yd shots..."

[Canspec]

Skyrs attempt to insinuate that in real life vs AH there are different effects of engine performance with regard to zoom climbs, is nothing but talking out his excrement orifice.

Now he is trying to back pedal on his claim that by saying he was talking about real life vs AH.


Note the word NOTHING, not words like very little, or is the smallest of factors regarding zoom climb, but the word NOTHING.

Simple test. Take a plane and zoom with engine on and engine off. If climb performance (obviously it will be drastically effected with engine on vs off) has nothing to do with its top out alt of the zoom then the two tests should perform EXACTLY the same i.e. NOTHING different in the results.

Cripes I have done this 100 of times at different throttle setting in real life. With out a doubt my RV zooms higher at higher power settings.

I don't rant like this often, but when someone is trying to argue against basic physics I just want to show them as the knowledgeable person they really are.


HiTech

I don't think Skyyr was talking about a ballistic climb with engine off being the same as a ballistic climb with engine on in the game. I believe he meant with engine on full the ballistic climb would be similar in the aircraft mentioned...

[Skyyr]

I don't think Skyyr was talking about a ballistic climb with engine off being the same as a ballistic climb with engine on in the game. I believe he meant with engine on full the ballistic climb would be similar in the modelled aircraft...

Precisely.

[hitech]

I never stated once that engine performance didn't matter in real life.

Any differences that are present have nothing to do with climb performance.

So which is it, are you stating that in real life climb performance doesn't matter, on in AH climb performance doesn't matter. I gave you a simple way to test in AH to prove you wrong.

It really doesn't make much difference because in all cases you are wrong i.e. incorrect, i.e. you are trying to back pedal on a statement you made.

One of the areas AH is extremely accurate in is basic performance numbers of things like climb rates, drag numbers, top speeds at all alts ect. If those are correct, zoom climbs have to match real life.

HiTech

[Skyyr]

So which is it, are you stating that in real life climb performance doesn't matter, on in AH climb performance doesn't matter. I gave you a simple way to test in AH to prove you wrong.

It really doesn't make much difference because in all cases you are wrong i.e. incorrect, i.e. you are trying to back pedal on a statement you made.

One of the areas AH is extremely accurate in is basic performance numbers of things like climb rates, drag numbers, top speeds at all alts ect. If those are correct, zoom climbs have to match real life.

HiTech

Please show me where I said that engine performance didn't matter, or that I mentioned the words "engine" or "throttle" prior to you bringing it up. I didn't.

You interpreted my comment to mean that an airplane will climb the same regardless of power configuration. That is not how I meant it or implied it, nor did I bring power settings up, nor was I referring to any single aircraft with multiple configurations.

My statement was in regards to different aircraft being at the same airspeed. Despite their different engines and climb performance, they will all effectively zoom climb to the same altitude given the same configurations. This is because in WWII aircraft, the T/W ratios are both low enough and yet similar to each other that they don't grossly affect ballistic performance when comparing one aircraft to another. A 500mph P-51 will climb to effectively the same altitude as a "better climbing" 500mph TA-152 or D9, despite having poorer climb performance and less excess power.

Poison's test confirmed this, and I knew this from testing it myself several months ago. You could run the same test with each aircraft having their engines off and see that they still end up at virtually the same altitude as each other (albeit lower than they both would have been with engines running).

As a rule of thumb, T/W ratio is not a primary factor for WWII aircraft in combat ballistic climbs, nor is overall climb performance. Yes, maximum throttle is assumed, but no where was it suggested that you would zoom climb with less than max throttle. This is a given parameter for energy fighting tactics.

If my post read any other way to you, then I apologize. I can say with 100% transparency that the above is exactly how I intended my post to be interpreted originally.