Author Topic: P-51d Lite  (Read 5637 times)

Offline Slade

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P-51d Lite
« on: January 27, 2015, 05:37:32 PM »
Yes, yes, yes the pilot is the main factor in ACM.  However...

You ever see one of those guys in a P-51d that can turn with anything,  near instantly make excess -E- appear and selectively fire one 50 cal bullet and hit the pilot?  Well that's not me.  Yep I can boom-and-zoom like anyone else in it though.

For me in many sorties I am just a few pixels off from getting a firing solution.  Being a performance hypernut I test and keep stats on weird plane micro performance points.  Recently the P-51d.  I thought ya know it can: dive, fast, great viz, avg climb, can retain E good.  What if I could fly it more like a turn fighter with my modest non-uber skills?

One notch flaps will already bring the turn radius in a 51d from 780 to 759.  Not a spit by any means but what I found was the 4 x 50 cal package with 25% fuel was almost 1,000 pounds lighter than the 6x50 variant!  I dont know if it changed the turn radius much but it felt noticeably lighter.  I did find that it did climb just a bit faster (that is easy enough to measure - stats for this on my site BTW).

I found 4x50 with 25% can sustain 300 mph at 300 rpms (saving precious fuel).  Also sustain a climb at 325 rpms.  With 4x50 I brought convergence to 300.  Many times 475 works in a 51d BTW (good for bomber hunting etc.).  

I did some close base sorties throttling up when close to base.  I really do think it made a difference.  Rather than climbing to 15k+, I engaged Spits, 109s, and LAs at co-alt of 4-8k or so.  Was not turning like a zero but flying smart I was able to get some shots in a 51d I could not before.  I pulled off some moves that I think were not possible for me before hand (at blackout in some cases).  I came out of blackout and was like Wha!!  That worked? I'm alive!?  LOL!  :rock

I also took 50% fuel for bases further away trying to burn off as much fuel as possible.  The tests continue...

Anyone else fly the 51d with just 4x50s lite?

« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 05:39:39 PM by Slade »
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 05:48:17 PM »
I take all the ammo I can carry in every plane. With my poor aim I need it all. For fuel, most planes it 50% and a drop. I'll even fight with the drop on if I haven't used much and Im "E" fighting a single guy. Ponies on the other hand 50% fuel is enough for most flights. Winging with Twinboom I bring more probably because he kills so fast I last longer  :D Winging with MARK4 ( my other squadie) is hit or miss because his aim is as bad as mine.  :devil

Heres a great film of some pony kills. Low alt, good speed control, great flap usage, and of course a good aim.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5c72lgl1q7992wh/51lulz.ahf

Offline darkzking

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2015, 02:25:40 AM »
Fugitive the 4x50cal gun package has more ammo :devil.
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 11:20:55 AM »
When the 13TAS was active, we would have mandatory 50% fuel, drop tanks, and 6x50 cal.  We found that if we flew with 50% fuel - it was a much better turning bird than full. 

We would climb out on WEP, disable wep at 13'000ft (no wep there), and re-engage it to 15k+ and level out at 20k.  When tanks were DT's were empty, or if we engaged, we dropped the tanks and had fun.  We found cruising at 300mph was good at preserving fuel too when DT's were gone.
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Offline Slade

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 11:22:27 AM »
Cool feedback - thanks.

What prompted me down this path a bit was finding the P-40n handling better with the 4 x 50 package BTW.
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Offline SirNuke

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 12:58:02 PM »
6 machineguns is 50% more damage than 4 machineguns

When you have small windows for shooting you will need the extra damage for the fight to end fast. The P51D can have surprising turns at high speed, but on the long run acceleration will be a limiting factor and you will quickly find yourself at risk. You can use the flaps to help aiming like if you feel you are short on lead just pop one notch of flaps at the last second, even in a dive...

When I was active I used to mostly take 6 guns 75% no DT and change my tactics during the sortie:

wing fuel 100% : avoid any contacts on climbout. If nmies are within icon range at least level out, below 250mph don't attempt anything crazy :P If you are at speed there no harm to get a little pick on the way  :devil I like having 75% no DT because even tho I am heaving because of the fuel, my top speed isn't impacted much. Droping DT's to then miss the fuel when a good opportunity comes up is frustrating.
wing fuel ~66% : stalls are easing out, you can look for a fight, don't mix up with a K4 tho and be careful with the slow acceleration...
wing fuel ~33% : have fun, if you are bored at altitude now is the time to come down to the nmy field and see what happens ^^

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 06:17:38 PM »
P-51D lite:

No gods or kings. Only Predator.

Offline DaveBB

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 07:13:09 PM »
Alright, since I have cancelled my Aces High account a while back, I am ready to give away my P-51 secrets.  I will try to be as objective as possible.  Though let me start by saying I loved flying the P-51 in Aces High. 

Here is how to rack up kills in the P-51:

(1) For most sorties, take 50% fuel and 6 guns (converged at 300 yards).

(2) Climb at WEP to 10k.  At 10k, the P-51 will cruise at 400mph.  If you want a bit more speed, climb to 12k.  Though going to 12k offers little advantage and uses up more fuel.  Do not get into the 12+ to 18k range, as the supercharger is not geared for this altitude and the engine loses power.

(3)Fight in the vertical.  Whenever there is a choice to make a vertical maneuver instead of a horizontal one, use the vertical maneuver.  Deploy flaps as your airspeed drops below 150mph, but as soon as you finish the maneuver, clean up quickly. 

(4)Keep your airspeed above 250mph when fighting in a target rich environment.  This gives you speed to maneuver.  The P-51 accelerates poorly.

(5)If you have to separate from an opponent, roll inverted and hold the stick forward until the G-meter reads "0".  The reason for rolling inverted is to allow you to reverse direction quickly if your opponent stays on you, forcing him to push negative G's while you can pull positive G's.

(6) As related to number 5, whenever you need to spoil an opponents shot, force him to push negative G's.  This is especially useful when fighting low and slow on the deck.  If you are in a turning fight, get your plane as far below the enemy plane as possible.  I can't tell you how many times this has saved me.

(7) When energy fighting, don't turn horizontally more than 60 degrees.  Use the vertical and roll the direction you need.  As said in number 3, use flaps as your speed bleeds off.

(8) When 1 vs 1 with an opponent, fight very aggressively in the first few seconds of the fight.  This will catch your opponent unaware.  For example, if you merge with a co-alt Spit, feel free to pull into a black-out immelman and drop full flaps to get a high angle deflection shot on him.  If you start losing, revert to rule 5.  If it shakes him up, clean your plane up, unload, and re-engage.

(9) Almost always turn to the left.  The Mustang is much more stable in a left hand turn.

(10) Learn how to do the Rolling Scissors.  It requires extreme use of rudder, balance, judgement, and timing.  Roll to the left.

As Duke Cunningham said "You meet a better class of people in the vertical."


Anyone else have anything to add to this post?
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2015, 08:54:18 PM »
Anyone else have anything to add to this post?


That was a very useful post, Dave, thanks.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 01:00:57 AM »
Go that way------------>really fast.   When something gets in you way turn!


ER...wait.  Wrong movie... :bolt:
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Offline Slade

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 11:19:06 AM »
DaveBB thanks for sharing that.  This community is always better for this type of open dialog. I think your points will work for most planes.

I am finding P-51d lite a very potent plane.  Also more fun!  Rather than coming in at boom-and-zoom altitude (15k+) I get to 6 or 8k and that is enough (unless bomber hunting).    I engage in action faster.  If 15k vulchers try to pounce - I have acquired numerous ways to deal with them.
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Offline TonyJoey

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 12:02:40 PM »
In my opinion, taking the 4 50 cals on the Delta never compensated for the lost firepower. If you can kill with 4 50's, the Pony Bravo would be a perfect fit for your flying style.

Offline darkzking

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 01:05:56 PM »
In my opinion, taking the 4 50 cals on the Delta never compensated for the lost firepower. If you can kill with 4 50's, the Pony Bravo would be a perfect fit for your flying style.

I can kill more fighters with the 4x50s usually thanks to the extra rounds you get. Also the forward view in the p51D is better then the p51B making it much easier to aim and it almost feels like you can down planes quicker with the 4x50s in p51D then in the B model
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 04:25:16 PM »
I can kill more fighters with the 4x50s usually thanks to the extra rounds you get. Also the forward view in the p51D is better then the p51B making it much easier to aim and it almost feels like you can down planes quicker with the 4x50s in p51D then in the B model

You don't get any extra rounds. There are 80 rounds more in the six gun configuration. The big difference is the weight of those two guns.
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: P-51d Lite
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2015, 05:20:38 PM »
The P-51B is geared different.  It doesn't produce as much HP at low altitude.  But above 25k it outpaces the P-51D.  The differences are slight but noticeable.
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