Author Topic: depression and creatine  (Read 1451 times)

Offline guncrasher

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2015, 01:39:24 PM »
Actually there is some studies that suggest what you say is true

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/03/28/creatine-for-depression-bipolar-disorder-5g-daily-supplementation/

Which leads me to my next statement. If you are having adverse effects to the antidepressants. You have been put on the wrong meds And quite possibly if not probably, you may be misdiagnosed.

I say this because over the last 20 years I've learned and am still learning more about mental illness then I ever wanted to know as my wife was misdiagnosed for almost 10 years. Her depression really turned out to be Bipolar disorder.

For almost 10 years she was diagnosed as having depression and took  tried an assortment of meds prescribed to her and the best her doc managed to come up with was something that basically made her like a zombie which led to a discussion I had with her doctor that was less then kind and me informing him that he was nothing more then a glorified pharmacist (Thats the the forum friendly version)

Eventually she tried a different doctor who diagnosed her as being bipolar and had her try different meds. The difference was like night and day. To the point where I used to joke that I sometimes wished she was on the zombie meds again. That was until a while back when she went completely manic. But while thats another story that is still working itself out. It does lead to my next statement.

While you have LOW lows. Do you also find you have HIGH highs? Times when you feel you are just doing (blanking) great!! Even though the circumstances around you might dictate that you should feel otherwise or you find yourself doing, or find yourself in hindsight wanting to do things that rationally are counter productive But you feel great about them at the moment? What I call a "Hold my beer and watch this" moments. only without the beer or jumping off a rooftop into a kiddie pool.

Do you find that you can go from one, low to high in varying degrees and back again for apparently no reason?
Remember. being too high can be just as bad as depression. And often just as detrimental. Particularly when it comes to family and relationships

I am not a doctor but it might be worth looking into or suggesting to your doctor. One thing is for certain. If your antidepressants are giving you suicidal thoughts. You are on the wrong, or wrong type of medication.

I am going to state something my wife likes to say about her condition that you may relate to.

"I sometimes wish I had a broken arm with the bone sticking out so I could have something to point to to show people whats wrong."

A lot of people not directly involved (spouse, children, immediate family) dont understand mental illness particularly with the depression end of it. For them its not real. Its easy to say "just pull yourself out of it." But they dont understand that those with it. Want to. But cant.
Equally they dont understand the manic end of it either as to all outward appearances the person is feeling or doing GREAT. And hey thery arent depressed so that in itself is a bonus. Not realizing that even for a normal non depressed person nobody is ever supposed to be doing that GREAT unless they won the lottery or just witnessed their first borne or something. Unfortunately. Outsiders even friends unfamiliar and/ inexperienced with dealing with the situation can unwittingly do more harm then good particularly during manic phases where they can become enablers.

Anyway. it is too easy for me to run off on this subject here. Like I said. Ive been forced to learn more then I ever wanted to know and I have already deviated significantly from my original point.
Have yourself checked out by another doctor. And another and another if thats what it takes till you find one that finally gets you right.

the thing dread is that how our brain works is just as mysterious to them as it is to us.  they just take a guess and work they way from there.  but thanks to the internet, i have I have been able to researched on my own.  I may not be an expert in the medical field but I am an expert in how I feel.  this is a dangerous thing if you are a bit more "sick" than I am.  as you dont want to ignore the opinions of those who really studied it.  but I felt that over the years, i mostly have been experimented on.  once I was given depakol.  it help for those who hallucinate but given to a guy who doesnt, then it will make you hallucinate and see things.  that wasnt fun at all.  ever since then I havent seen a psychiatrist as I really dont want them to prescribe anti-depressants to me.  I have been on about 5 different medical plans, so not every psychiatrists believes me when I say I cannot take anti-depressants. 

the closest I have ever been to being diagnosed is by my ex wife, who used to say, "why do you get so angry and 5 minutes later you act as if nothing is wrong".  I dont know, but in the past 10 years I have learned to pay attention and not get angry when I shouldnt.  I kind of step out and walk away until that "rage" if you call it that way, goes away.  but that "rage"  mostly follows a bout of depression and anxiety.  now I dont beat up people or do stuff like that, I yell and scream about some stupid thing that is really meaningless while at the same time in my own head I think about why am I so upset when there's no reason for it.

I have been playing this game for a few years now and before when I was into the middle of combat, and I am talking when I first started playing bout  7 years ago, sometimes win or lose I would just had to step away from the keyboard and get on my knees and feel like I was having a heart attack.  that is the stress part of it.  I would hold my breath and get so into the game that I thought I was actually blacking out or was gonna die.

I laugh about it now.  but just the last couple of weeks, it's been really good for me.  I exercise take creatine and keep the xanax just in case.  time will tell what actually is causing it.

perhaps it's the creatine, maybe it's the excercise, or maybe it's just that i decided to change my life.  perhaps it's all 3.  maybe it's just me deciding to get more involved in church.  at the end it doesnt matter.  i am just enjoying my life for the first time in a long time.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


semp

you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline RotBaron

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2015, 03:05:21 PM »
Drediok:

The reason I mentioned the mania was because of the mention of high-highs and low-lows. Depression, imh&ho is rarely accompanied by high-highs. That is mania, especially when it goes on for weeks. Bi-polar and depression may go together, but depression not accompanied by mania is not bi-polar. That I'm aware of, even semi-ocassional mania is not a clinical and singular diagnoses of depression.

I'm very familiar with panic attacks, unfortunately. They are hell, but there are literally 100's if not more non-medicinal interventions. A good psychiatrist will require patients to attend psychotherapy if they want the benzos to keep coming. The biggest problem with benzos is there is nothing to take to lessen withdrawal except less benzodiazepines. Alcoholics withdrawing have it slightly better, at least they can take valium until the risk of death is over. 

Meridian tapping, acupuncture, group therapy, walking, exercising, yoga, meditation, etc. all have some result on anxiety disorder. They may not "cure" it alone, but they certainly don't make it worse. Combinations of those interventions work even better. Controlled breathing may be the most effective way to combat anxiety, it takes a lot of practice. But as I've heard one doctor say, it's impossible to have a panic attack if breathing is controlled - as hyperventilation is the predominant symptom that causes anxiety to escalate to panic.

Obviously everyone's mmv.

Btw, about marijuana, in some ppl it can actually cause anxiety and compromise coping mechanisms.

They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline guncrasher

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2015, 04:23:55 PM »
you are correct rotbaron, taking things like xanax eventually however helpful it will get you addicted, that's why I dont take it for too long.  because withdrawals are a squeak.  trust me I have gone thru 2 on xanax, so I am careful with it.  as much as they help me, i am more worried about the withdrawals.

weed isnt a cure all, but it does have it's benefits.  however the problem is that most people take it just to get high.  they dont look at it as a medication they same way they see xanax.  I am carefull with xanax, and if it ever became legal I would be just as careful with weed.

there's not one thing that will cure whatever afliction you have.  it's normally a combination of several.

my kids have the same afflections I have.  they smoke weed, but they dont smoke it to get high or all the time.  they try to control it, so it doesnt control their lives.  my son once jokingly told me thanks about the dna  generics.  I just replied dont thank me, thanks my grandman and her father.   it just runs in the family.  I see my grandaughter and while she's a smart happy girl, once she hits about 12 or 13 then she'll have the same thing me and my kids have.  I hope it skips her for it is a toejamty life.  but on the other hand my daughter is prepared for when it happens.

the main thing is educate yourself and be prepared.



semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline RotBaron

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2015, 09:05:52 PM »
Good and wise you're very careful about the xanax potential for abuse.

Someone mentioned to me recently Zofran (anti-nausea) is prescribed in Europe as an anxiolytic. It works on GABA, is not habit forming (other than psychologically)...You know our FDA and prescribing protocols, I've heard some ppl are going to docs with anxiety and saying they have nausea too to get it prescribed.
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2015, 10:12:49 PM »
Drediok:

The reason I mentioned the mania was because of the mention of high-highs and low-lows. Depression, imh&ho is rarely accompanied by high-highs. That is mania, especially when it goes on for weeks. Bi-polar and depression may go together, but depression not accompanied by mania is not bi-polar. That I'm aware of, even semi-ocassional mania is not a clinical and singular diagnoses of depression.

I'm very familiar with panic attacks, unfortunately. They are hell, but there are literally 100's if not more non-medicinal interventions. A good psychiatrist will require patients to attend psychotherapy if they want the benzos to keep coming. The biggest problem with benzos is there is nothing to take to lessen withdrawal except less benzodiazepines. Alcoholics withdrawing have it slightly better, at least they can take valium until the risk of death is over. 

Meridian tapping, acupuncture, group therapy, walking, exercising, yoga, meditation, etc. all have some result on anxiety disorder. They may not "cure" it alone, but they certainly don't make it worse. Combinations of those interventions work even better. Controlled breathing may be the most effective way to combat anxiety, it takes a lot of practice. But as I've heard one doctor say, it's impossible to have a panic attack if breathing is controlled - as hyperventilation is the predominant symptom that causes anxiety to escalate to panic.

Obviously everyone's mmv.

Btw, about marijuana, in some ppl it can actually cause anxiety and compromise coping mechanisms.



Here was the problem. Inexperience on our part. The depression was prevalent. It was the part everyone was concerned with. The mania wasnt noticed as it often isnt because Hey She's feeling GREAT again.

Also you must well know there are varying levels and symptoms of mania including but not exclusive to at least three of the following symptoms:

   1 Increased physical and mental activity and energy
   2 Exaggerated optimism and self-confidence
   3 Excessive irritability, aggressive behavior
   4 Decreased need for sleep without becoming tired
   5 Grandiose thoughts, extreme sense of self-importance
   6 Racing speech, racing thoughts, impulsiveness, poor judgment
   7 Reckless behavior such as spending sprees, impulsive business decisions, erratic driving and sexual indiscretions
   8 In severe cases, delusions and hallucinations

Depending on the levels and combinations. On the surface it may not appear as much to the inexperienced eye. And hey. They arent curled up in a fetal position! As a family member you have to take a step back and look at in from a non emotional perspective. example Ok. she's not wracked with depression. But she is suddenly overly upbeat as though she can conquer the world and energetic even though she isnt sleeping much. She also just suddenly jumped up,went out and bought a new broom and a new set of dishes even though we already have 3 brooms and we just got a new dinnerware set that she picked out 3 months ago. Suddenly everything is about her.

Now here's the kicker. You can be doing fine for months on the meds. Then suddenly you can go one way or the other and with Bi polar one usually follows the other but not always. Particularly if caught and the meds are adjusted. Though typically a manic episode is more often then not followed by a crash. This often happens because during a manic cycle the patient often reduces or stops taking their meds altogether. Because hey. They feel great What do they need meds for?

When they go full blown manic the family can do what they can to try and influence the situation but they are essentially along for the ride. Especially if you have outside people that often unwittingly become enablers. The best they can hope for is to conduct damage control and hope nothing irreparable relationship wise has been done.

I myself became all too familiar with panic attacks during her last and absolute worst manic phase ever. Eventually they went away on their own with the help of a customer that just happened to be a therapist herself. Im not very religious. But someone or some thing sent her into my life at that particular moment. She was most helpful not only in just talking to but in predicting almost to the letter everything my wife was doing or going to do which in itself helped a lot.

Yea. It is hell. Feels like an earthquake going on inside your body. Find yourself taking sudden extra breaths for no reason and a constant feeling of fear you cant just shake off.
Must be terrible for those that get them regularly

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Offline Hoarach

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2015, 11:55:53 PM »
Only doing a little digging to alternatives to SSRI which are the go to drugs for depression, however, SSRIs are also labeled by the FDA with a black box warning for the chance of suicidal thoughts like you mentioned.  Doing a little digging in some textbooks I have, brought me to major depression disorder and other alternative treatment options outside SSRIs.  I dont know if you have a list of drugs that you have been prescribed, I dont want to assume that you have been solely prescribed only SSRIs but if you have maybe bring it up to a psychiatrist.  The SSRIs include your Zoloft and Prozac.  TCAs are rarely used for classic depression but doing a little reading used for more severe cases (include Anafranil, Aventyl, Norpramin).  Also the atypical ones including Effexor and Wellbutrin.  I dont know if you have done any research into it but there is also electroconvulsive therapy.  

Figure just maybe list some other prescription options if they havent been tried.  Hope helps a little.   :salute
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Offline zack1234

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2015, 01:57:21 AM »
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Offline NatCigg

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2015, 07:46:12 AM »
I like sleeping

i like acid...or i did...no i never did acid...oh look now im paranoid.  :noid

Offline guncrasher

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2015, 01:42:35 PM »
Only doing a little digging to alternatives to SSRI which are the go to drugs for depression, however, SSRIs are also labeled by the FDA with a black box warning for the chance of suicidal thoughts like you mentioned.  Doing a little digging in some textbooks I have, brought me to major depression disorder and other alternative treatment options outside SSRIs.  I dont know if you have a list of drugs that you have been prescribed, I dont want to assume that you have been solely prescribed only SSRIs but if you have maybe bring it up to a psychiatrist.  The SSRIs include your Zoloft and Prozac.  TCAs are rarely used for classic depression but doing a little reading used for more severe cases (include Anafranil, Aventyl, Norpramin).  Also the atypical ones including Effexor and Wellbutrin.  I dont know if you have done any research into it but there is also electroconvulsive therapy.  

Figure just maybe list some other prescription options if they havent been tried.  Hope helps a little.   :salute

have taken both effexor and wellbutrin.  same results except wellbutrin made me quit smoking within 2 weeks :).


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline jimson

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2015, 10:47:01 PM »
I've been on Zoloft since my heart attack last year. I knew I was severely depressed, the whole confronting your mortality thing. I don't want to take it anymore but my family thinks it is doing me good. Hell they're all on AD's too.

I have a few Zanax left the doc gave me to use when I got all agitated from quitting smoking I guess. I only take one of those when I wake up in the middle of the night and the racing mind won't let me back to sleep.

I honestly don't know what's really working or what's psychosomatic, but if creatine and exercise are helping you, then enjoy it.

You'll know soon enough if it's just a temporary coincidence.

Offline Gooss

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2015, 01:11:25 AM »
semp,

Glad it's working for you.  Everything I've read about creatine is that it's safe at not stupid doses of a teaspoon a day.  It does have a pesky side effect.  Lean body mass increases.  Pile on some whey protein. 

Pile on some iron just to ride the wave.  I second FLS's recommendation to check out Starting Strength.  That should enhance the lean body mass growth side effect while getting stronger.

Best of luck with this.

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Offline kamori

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Re: depression and creatine
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2015, 09:40:53 AM »
You may want to seriously look at Anxiety..Ive had the exact same issues as you wrote. Its taken me until 47 years old to learn that my anxiety was the core root of my depression. Once I got the anxiety under control my depression is almost gone even on days and situations that would send me into depression. I highly recommend going down this road. If you want to talk more about the details e-mail me first at skerlock@montanasky.us.

kamori (Scott)