Judging Speed in a chase

[BBP]

My question about speed is - well its hard to judge - how exactly do you do it? I look at my surrounding. I couldn't tell if I was going 200 or 300. I look at the distance the cons plane is showing. I could go 600-500-400-300 in 10 seconds and then stay in 300 for 2-3 minutes. Sometimes I get stuck in the 600 range forcing me to take long shots I really don't want to take.
I always try to relate to the other guys position to figure things out but it just doesn't work in this case. There has got to be more to Judging speed than I have posted. Any tips out there on this subject?

Thanks for all the help on FLAPS.............I learned a lot from you guys!

KimoSabe

[FLS]

I just assume everyone running or chasing is going their max speed.  You have to know which aircraft are faster or slower than yours.

Remember altitude is energy you can convert to speed to go faster than max level speed. Judging the total energy package of speed and altitude, both yours and theirs, and knowing the max level speeds, will help you determine if the chase is worthwhile.

[BBP]

Thanks FSL

I've flown every plane in the game a Kazillion times, so I do know there speeds. But comparing my altitude to there's is something I didn't consider. And again putting myself in their shoes will help figure speed. And level speeds are going to be slower than going down the big slide! 

Thanks for the tip!

KimoSabe (its all common sense)

[Kingpin]

As FLS said, knowing the speed and acceleration capabilities of the plane-set helps a lot.  

But I might also add to this discussion that there is a big SA (Situational Awareness) component to this.  Watching the cons around you and seeing how they are maneuvering is really the best way to judge their energy state.  A simple way of thinking about this is to ask "what did they last do?"  Did they just dive? - then they are relatively fast.   Are they at the top of a zoom climb? - then they are relatively slow.  Did they just turn hard? - then they just decelerated from whatever speed they had.

So, if you are going to start your "chase" (engage the con) after one of these examples, you can probably tell before you engage whether or not you have chance of catching them, because it is more about YOUR current speed (E-state, really) vs. their current E-state.  Then knowing both of your acceleration and top speed capabilities helps with determining if your timing will be right (if you have enough time to get to them before they get their energy greatly exceeding yours).  

The slowest plane in the game can "catch" the fastest plane in the game, IF they time it right. Good situational awareness plays a big role in determining if you can do that, though.

I wanted to throw that into the discussion, because thinking of it as an SA question, in addition to aircraft capability, may be helpful too I believe.

<S>
Ryno

[FLS]

Thanks FSL

I've flown every plane in the game a Kazillion times, so I do know there speeds. But comparing my altitude to there's is something I didn't consider. And again putting myself in their shoes will help figure speed. And level speeds are going to be slower than going down the big slide! 

Thanks for the tip!

KimoSabe (its all common sense)

You're welcome.

When you chase downhill remember that your best acceleration is at 0g with no lift. Push to 0g and watch your altitude loss, you want an easy pull to level flight to keep drag low.

[BBP]

So are you saying FLS to point the nose down and use no throttle and let it fall on its own? Then slowly level out at the bottom? I think thats what your saying but not really sure!
Thanks,
Kimo

[BaldEagl]

You may or may not want to "go down the big slide" as you put it.

It's not speed as much as it is E that you want to know.  E (energy) is the combination of kinetic energy (motion or speed) and potential (stored) energy, which, as FLS pointed out is altitude.  Either form of energy can be converted to the other at any time.  Speed can be converted to altitude with virtually no loss in E.  Likewise, altitude can be converted to speed retaining your overall E state.

The problem with a quick dive to an equally fast or faster opponent that you're chasing is loss of E due to aerodynamic drag.  Eventually you're going to slow down to your top level speed for whatever altitude you dove to.  You'll get a quick burst of speed on the initial dive but as you slow to your top level speed, if you haven't caught the bandit, you're not going to.  In this case a much shallower dive toward a point of interception off in the distance is in order.  Enough to increase your speed above your opponents top level speed.  As you watch your closure rate you can tell if you're going to intercept of if you're going to run out of air.  At that point you can adjust accordingly (more dive angle for more speed) or abandon the chase.  Either way you've preserved at least a portion of your potential energy by building and holding speed rather than having given it away to drag.

On a slightly different but similar note, if you dive so hard that you have to reduce throttle or cross control to control dive speed you're giving away stored energy and lowering your overall E state.

Learning to judge opponent's E states and manage your own takes time but it's very useful, particularly once you're engaged.

One last thing I forgot.  Remember in the flaps thread the tip to turn off combat trim?  Here it's just the opposite.  The better trimmed you are the faster you'll go so don't forget to trim.  At very high speed you'll have to trim manually as CT doesn't work well at the top of the speed envelope.

One more thing; It's not just knowing how fast a plane can fly but also knowing it's dive and climb characteristics and how much of each type of E it can convert and how quickly.

[FLS]

So are you saying FLS to point the nose down and use no throttle and let it fall on its own? Then slowly level out at the bottom? I think thats what your saying but not really sure!
Thanks,
Kimo

Think about it. Will you go faster with thrust or without thrust?   

Use WEP if you have it otherwise full throttle for best acceleration. Unloading the wing to 0g just reduces your drag so you get the most speed out of your thrust and gravity assist.

[BBP]

How do you - Unloading the wing to 0g ????

KIMO

[FLS]

How do you - Unloading the wing to 0g ????

KIMO

Sorry for the undefined term. G is gravity. When you fly straight and level the wing is loaded to 1g. The lift equals the weight of the aircraft.
To increase the load on the wing to 2g you pull the stick back a little which changes the angle the air meets the wing and increases the lift.
When you see 2g on the accelerometer lift is equal to twice the weight of the aircraft. The accelerometer is the gauge that shows the g load.
Increasing the g load is referred to as "loading" and decreasing the g load is called "unloading". It describes the amount of lift per unit of weight.

At 0g the wing load is 0 lbs as opposed to say 10,000 lbs at 1g. This means the aircraft is unsupported and falling like a heavy aerodynamic rock. Add thrust and you get your best acceleration.

So unloading to 0g means moving the stick forward until you see 0g on the accelerometer. If you go past 0 to -1g you are adding drag and wasting altitude/energy.

Find the accelerometer so you can refer to it when you need to. When you play with it you'll notice how increasing g load (lift) in a turn increases drag and slows you down.

[BBP]

Thanks - Glad I asked!
Kimo!

[Bizman]

Thanks - Glad I asked!
Kimo!

Thanks, I'm glad you asked! Something so simple and I've always wondered how I can bleed energy so fast!

[BBP]

FLS,
I found the meter and I'm practicing its useage. My question is if you need to dip the nose of the plane more than 0 G, because you need that angle to zero in on the Con, is that just the way it is and nothing you can really do about it? Its the price you must pay for the kill?

Kimo

[FLS]

You can't fly at 0 G, you're just falling so it's a limited trick to boost acceleration.

The accelerometer is more useful to help you understand turning when you explore the g load available at various speeds.

[BBP]

OK,
Thanks,
I'm practicing all this stuff and learning a ton!
Kimo!