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Author Topic: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter  (Read 2836 times)

Offline Saxman

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Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« on: February 05, 2015, 06:50:06 AM »
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-navys-6th-generation-fighter-jets-will-be-slow-unstealthy-12193

The Navy's next fighter will be abandoning pretty much the ENTIRE HISTORY of fighter design in its proposed 6th Generation fighter. Not only will it NOT be particularly stealthy, and it won't be fast, either.

So you know, two of the BIGGEST flaws of the F-35.

While I can see where they're coming from with stealth -- radar technology has frankly evolved to the point where it's not the tremendous advantage it used to be, and it raises questions of how much its worth it -- abandoning the old addage "Speed is Life" comes as a surprise.

Yes, a fighter can't outrun a missile. But on the other hand, it CAN outrun the aircraft firing it. The trend has been for faster fighters throughout history for a REASON.
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Offline SysError

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2015, 07:08:50 AM »
what is the expected service life of the F-35?
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2015, 07:09:19 AM »
50 years.
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Offline MrKrabs

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2015, 07:13:36 AM »
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2015, 07:15:07 AM »
In the mid 90:s all present fighters like EF, Rafale and F-22 were 4th gen fighters, 5th gen were something like cuav. So that would at best be a 5th gen fighter.
4th gen were fly-by-wire and all digital systems) "stealth" was not a criterium at all. (hard to define what stealth really is) Mosqito was for ex a stealth bomber....
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2015, 07:40:59 AM »
The Mosquito was a fast bomber that evaded interception using speed, similar to a B-1 or Tu-122 today. It was perfectly visible on German radars.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2015, 08:00:43 AM »
It was still built with advanced material invicible to radar, except for the engines.   :lol Not to speak of the Po-2...
And even the F-22 is visible to radar.
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Offline MrKrabs

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2015, 08:07:45 AM »
Isn't that exactly it? What good is radar when you cannot catch them in the first place? What is the top speed of any Allied nation fighter with ordinance? Or even our mighty bombers that can maintain incredible speeds at insanely high alts...

Wouldn't the Eurofighter Typhoon be a decent example of a jet that says "Hey I'm coming let's see you stop me!"?

I just don't understand why we are so hard-pressed for the F-35 or any plane like it? Who are we looking to piss off now with such a alleged stealth fighter...
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2015, 08:09:04 AM »
Quote from: Zimme83 on February 05, 2015, 08:00:43 AM
It was still built with advanced material invicible to radar, except for the engines.   :lol Not to speak of the Po-2...
And even the F-22 is visible to radar.

Radar controller used to call out the skydivers I dropped after they opened….he could see them on an ATC radar.    I'm thinking if radar can see the nylon, bone and flesh of a skydiver it can probably see a Mossie.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2015, 08:24:18 AM »
Quote from: colmbo on February 05, 2015, 08:09:04 AM
Radar controller used to call out the skydivers I dropped after they opened….he could see them on an ATC radar.    I'm thinking if radar can see the nylon, bone and flesh of a skydiver it can probably see a Mossie.
Radar technology in ww2 was not the same thing as it now.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2015, 08:28:38 AM »
The Mosquito's wings and fuselage was made from wood composites, but it still had a lot of metal structure and supports. More than enough for even primitive radar to pick up with ease.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2015, 08:32:34 AM »
Framework, hatches, wires, tubing, fasteners, engines. Just about everything underneath the wooden skin was metal.

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Offline Muzzy

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2015, 08:37:04 AM »
I'd say speed issues are just one of many problems with the F-35. I'm no engineer but it seems that the designers conceived the plane as a land based aircraft first and then tried to cut it down to fit it's VTOL and CATOBAR roles. This strikes me as ass-backwards.  Historically,  it's been a lot easier to take a carrier aircraft and turn it into a land based aircraft rather than the other way around. The F4U and CF 18 Hornet are examples of that. Both are Navy birds that are easily competitive with their land based opposition. The STOL/VTOL capabilities are in my opinion asking a bit too much.

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Offline bozon

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2015, 08:39:01 AM »
The mosquito was invisible to radar when it was flying at 20 feet AGL hedge hopping across Europe. Otherwise, it may have a slightly smaller radar signature than other planes of its size, but still enough to see on radar.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2015, 09:43:11 AM »
Quote
Robert Farley is an assistant professor at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce.

Another obvious expert.
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