Author Topic: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter  (Read 2837 times)

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2015, 12:44:12 AM »
Almost 40 years.... First units got it in 1976.

we using rifles that were designed back in the 60's, mines that were from ww2 and bullets that are from way back then.  all have been updated but it is still the same basic design.  think ak47. dont even mention mortars and artillery.


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Offline Brooke

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2015, 02:07:36 AM »
If you are interested how the F-16 came to be, I recommend the book "Boyd," by Coram.  It's a very interesting book on a lot of levels.

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2015, 02:46:44 PM »
Came across this video of new (and old) Russian stuff. It's the first time I've seen video of the Russian stealth fighter, the Pak Fa. I've seen pictures, but not video like this. Also has some of their newest tanks and vehicle systems in it. These are some of the threats the F-35 will face in any future conflict.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0ad_1423479820
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2015, 03:16:15 PM »
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 03:30:45 PM »
Some people in this thread talk like the F-35 is completely invisible or something.

Ever seen one fly? See!  Invisible! :)
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2015, 04:13:06 PM »
 :lol
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2015, 09:38:28 PM »
Ever seen one fly? See!  Invisible! :)

Actually, I just saw two this morning land at NAS Pensacola on the way in to work out.

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2015, 10:48:29 PM »
So..is the plan to wait untill every other fighter in current service can no longer fly? (including whatever enemy plane it might face before 2020)

Could stealth be the tech that brakes the backs of every nation that is trying to make a 6th gen fight? :D





"News reporter:Why haven't we won the air war yet?" (General) Because there is no one to see, and everything costs too much to risk being shot down by something we cant see!!!"


And there you have it folks.





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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2015, 08:48:35 AM »
Came across this video of new (and old) Russian stuff. It's the first time I've seen video of the Russian stealth fighter, the Pak Fa. I've seen pictures, but not video like this. Also has some of their newest tanks and vehicle systems in it. These are some of the threats the F-35 will face in any future conflict.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0ad_1423479820

Well...If war's can be won with video's then I give the Ruskies the edge.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2015, 11:04:11 AM »
I wouldn't. The first half was OK'ish, but the rest was ruined by the music.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2015, 11:15:12 AM »
I wouldn't. The first half was OK'ish, but the rest was ruined by the music.

Yeah but they make the best weapons. Just ask 'em.

Most of all highly advanced aircraft, engines, and avionics. Just ask 'em. Of course there is no free press in Russia and no way to independently verify their claims, "which almost always turns out to be malarky".

Besides the price of oil is playing havoc with their economy. Its not like they build anything anyone actually wants to buy, other then a few military customers who want cash and carry with no strings attached.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2015, 12:19:09 PM »
I have yet to hear a weapons manufacturer claim that their product is crap. I've also not heard of a people who's not proud of their military, regardless of how outmoded or impotent it may be.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2015, 12:44:03 PM »
Quote
Yeah but they make the best weapons. Just ask 'em.

Most of all highly advanced aircraft, engines, and avionics. Just ask 'em. Of course there is no free press in Russia and no way to independently verify their claims, "which almost always turns out to be malarky".

Besides the price of oil is playing havoc with their economy. Its not like they build anything anyone actually wants to buy, other then a few military customers who want cash and carry with no strings attached.

Much of this is true, but there are exceptions.  When western folks got a hold of the AA11/R73 Archer from the German Mig29s after the reunification, it was a huge, huge shock to analysts and Air Forces in NATO how much more capable it was than the Aim9L/m.  We had been thinking the entire time in the 80s during the height of the cold war we had by far the best IR missile in the world, the weapon responsible for most of the a2a kills in jet aircraft.  Well, we didn't, the Archer was a far, far better missile, faster, more maneuverable, better seeker head, far longer range, off axis shooting ability, all of it.  We didn't catch up until the Aim9x and other newer IR missiles came on line.

Now, I realize one example doesn't make all their stuff "superman weapons", as they tried to play off in the 80s in the Cold War, but there was some things they built, like the Su27 at the time, the Archer, and other systems, that were as good or even better than Western weapons of the time.  Underestimating them, and declaring all of their data lies and media friendly fabrications is dangerous, had there been war in the 80s, a lot of our fighter pilots might have eaten Archers far outside of the parameters we though it was capable of in the opening days of war, because the consensus was that their data and selling points we discovered were lies and exaggerations when they tried selling the Archer to Soviet allies.  It was declared inferior at the time, when it was in fact the best IR missile by leaps and bounds in the world at the time.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 12:46:04 PM by Gman »

Offline Toad

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2015, 12:47:46 PM »
I find it comforting that Lockeed, beneficiary of billions of taxpayer dollars, assures us that the F-35 is an amazing world-beating aircraft.

We can take solace in the fact that Lockheed, unlike all other defense contractors, always tells the absolutely truth about its products, warts and all.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Navy To Ignore History With 6th Gen Fighter
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2015, 11:26:18 AM »
Except that nobody really argues that western engines and avionics are far better then anyone elses.

Nor does an ATA missile operate in a vacuum. Its only as good as the aircraft, the avionics, and the support components of the air force flying it. And no Air Force, or military Industrial complex, can be expected to have the "absolute best" weapons systems ever, all the time. Because thats not how systems are designed or procured. The mission dictates that.

And the aircraft itself is only one component of a networked strike package, as is its missiles and other weapons. Do correct me if Im wrong but the Archer isnt even designed for digital data link. In fact the Russian Air Force itself is far, far behind us in data links, data processing power and speed, battle space management, software development, avionics, multi mission capability.

Hell the best AMRAMM is probably built by the Euro's in the meteor. Hell-2 the Norwegians make some very good missiles as well.

But in the end they are only as good as the fusion of systems they have been built to operate with and in. And their support elements. And doctrine.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"