Author Topic: ATR 72 A Death Trap??  (Read 14097 times)

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2015, 09:38:17 AM »
DC-9/MD80 is a perfectly safe airplane when properly maintained and operated.
The MD80 is a flying coffin when something goes wrong.  The way my father put it to me years ago, when it came to design durability and performance envelope forgiveness in the MD80, there isn't a whole lotta wiggle room for error. Tiny wings with a high swept design and a weighted tail. When it's performing it does it well, but when things go wrong, his question was does the design and mechanics of the aircraft allow for wiggle outside of normal flight envelope? (I.e. a simple trim bar ring breaks, and it has no elevator control as in Air Alaska accident).

If we look at the ATR72: tiny wings and large round body. This maximizes on design and flying costs. When something goes wrong, does this allow room for forgiveness? Is it why we have a high number of spectacular fatal accidents when something does go wrong?

According to my buddy Dave who is a pilot for Jazz Airlines - the Dash 8 in comparison it's a rugged plane and forgiving for stupid mistakes. He thinks the ATR with the wider body and smaller wing design means that it's not very forgiving for said stupid mistakes or allowed to push much outside its flight envelope. Is he right or is the answer something simpler?

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Offline dirtdart

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2015, 10:37:38 AM »
Yep. Perception killed the DC 10. It kills any dc 9 MD 80 series for me.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2015, 10:45:02 AM »
The ATR 72 has a wing loading of 76 lbs/sq. feet at max take-off weight.

The Dash 8-Q400 has a wing loading of 95 lbs/sq. feet at max take-off weight.


It's difficult to take any person serious who thinks he can divine some actual insight into an aircraft's performance or behavior just by looking at it.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2015, 11:00:00 AM »
Also, the B737 and MD-80 have very similar wing area and wing loading. The MD-80's wings only look smaller because the fuselage is longer and narrower.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2015, 12:45:03 PM »
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2015, 05:57:03 PM »
Yep. Perception killed the DC 10. It kills any dc 9 MD 80 series for me.

95% of passengers have no idea what kind of airplane they are flying on. Most of all the DC/MD series who's problems occurred probably before they were even born. I would have no hesitation flying in the MD series, most of all the later ones. I see American MD-80s all the time and Delta has a bunch of later gen MDs. The reason it will be phased out is because Boeing took over MD, canceled production, and the next Gen 737s are in a demand that far exceeds production capability. Imagine a passenger jet thats had 13,000 ordered and currently has a backlog of over 4,000.

The reason? Not safety issues with the MDs but the next Gen Boeings get Jack and Jill from point A to point B cheaper. With less maintenance cost and with 50 years of background with them.
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2015, 06:44:45 PM »
I am tracking all. Just pointing out that something as simple as ignorant perception impacts business. That picture of the inverted dc10 still is in my mind.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 07:15:50 PM by dirtdart »
If you are not GFC...you are wee!
Put on your boots boots boots...and parachutes..chutes...chutes.. .
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2015, 07:44:34 AM »
What inverted DC10 are you referring to?
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2015, 07:59:25 AM »
What inverted DC10 are you referring to?

This one, I think.

Offline Charge

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2015, 08:02:03 AM »
What the hell does that mean: "the whistle blower will not work in the industry and will not work in government?" 40:00

A person who goes to government and tells that his/her company ignores safety regulations cannot work even for government?

That doesn't make sense.

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Offline Zimme83

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2015, 08:02:39 AM »
Ah the one where the ground crew messed it up by using a fork lift....
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2015, 08:08:56 AM »
What the hell does that mean: "the whistle blower will not work in the industry and will not work in government?" 40:00

A person who goes to government and tells that his/her company ignores safety regulations cannot work even for government?

That doesn't make sense.

-C+

The government has more skeletons in the closet than any company. A whistle blower is treated like a traitor. Even if he helped you by betraying his employer, you cannot trust him - because he has betrayed his employer. Right or wrong, that how the world works.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2015, 08:14:34 AM »
I am tracking all. Just pointing out that something as simple as ignorant perception impacts business. That picture of the inverted dc10 still is in my mind.

But you feel perfectly safe flying in a Boeing right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M01RmcKsm2k


Neither of those accidents had anything to do with the aircraft design. Both where human error/negligence.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 08:19:34 AM by PR3D4TOR »
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2015, 12:52:59 PM »
True. All true. I do not feel safe in any airplane... that'swhy I fly a cartoon one. 
If you are not GFC...you are wee!
Put on your boots boots boots...and parachutes..chutes...chutes.. .
Illigitimus non carborundum

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: ATR 72 A Death Trap??
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2015, 02:30:26 PM »
This one, I think.
(Image removed from quote.)

That was the Chicago one right? I think all DC10 crashes were attributed to a bad door design or a foul up by mechanics.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"