Author Topic: How to fight with E  (Read 2850 times)

Offline darkzking

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How to fight with E
« on: February 05, 2015, 02:45:31 PM »
The ways of Turn fighting A6ms Brews Spits in my p39 are not working how do I E-fight these planes (raynos E-fighting consist of shoot pull up loop over shoot again run out of speed in front of their guns and die. Or in the case of spits they just climb with me.). Whenever i start a fight with an Altitude advantage i will have about a 40% Chance of killing an aircraft that is aware of my presence (although when they dive on me i have more of 60% chance at winning :lol).
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Offline FLS

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2015, 03:11:02 PM »
If you run out of speed(E) how are you E fighting? When E is low disengage and get more.

Offline darkzking

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2015, 03:14:16 PM »
If you run out of speed(E) how are you E fighting? When E is low disengage and get more.

Uh good question  :lol
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2015, 03:16:24 PM »
The key to E fighting is flying with Trim tabs, only thing those pesky elevators are good for is bleeding much needed Energies.

In all seriousness having a button close at hand to turn auto trim off will make you alot faster to those who keep auto trim on all the time.
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Offline Latrobe

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2015, 03:25:43 PM »
I'm not an expert on E fighting but I'll give my thoughts.

E fighting against those planes in a P-39 is going to be difficult but not impossible. When you have the altitude advantage you want to use up as little of your E as possible while forcing your opponent to use up as much of his as you can. That way if you miss the shot then you can zoom climb back up to altitude with very little risk of them getting a shot on you. Make your attack run from their 6 so they are forced to pull the tightest turn to get their wingtip pointed at you (to avoid your shot and force an overshoot). If you feel like you're not going to get a good shot on them or are going to have to pull hard and waste some E to get a shot then it's best to disengage, climb, and reengage as soon as you can. It's important to be aggressive and keep the pressure up so your opponent can't regain the speed he lost avoiding your previous attack.

From an altitude disadvantage things get a little tricky as your opponent chooses when to engage. This forces you to maneuver and use up some speed to avoid his attack whether you are ready or not. If you're not very good at lining up shots on the overshoots then your first objective is to get co-alt with your opponent by either climbing up to him or him making a mistake and coming down to you. You can trick your opponent into making a mistake by "hiding" your energy. One example that I like to employ is to avoid their attack and force the overshoot. Then I'll turn back into them and make it look like I'm going to try and follow them up only I won't pull very hard on the stick. This will help save speed, but if your opponent misreads you then it'll look like to him that you are struggling to climb with him (just what he wants). You're baiting him into coming over the top and diving early by giving him what looks like what he wants, a slow stalling plane in a rope. Once you see him roll over to drop down then you pull up hard into him with your "hidden" energy and now you have forced him to come down to your altitude. If you can't trick your opponent into coming down or he won't make a mistake and come down then your only option is extend and slow climb away from him. Remember to keep a decent amount of speed so you can still maneuver and avoid your opponents attacks. You'll keep doing this until you eventually reach their altitude or they get bored and make the mistake of coming down to you.

Again, I'm no expert in the E fighting department so I might be all wrong here. This is just what I do and what has worked for me.

Offline Scca

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 07:16:01 AM »
.....You'll keep doing this until you eventually reach their altitude or they get bored and make the mistake of coming down to you.....
... and they almost always do both. 

I have film of about a 7 minute fight where I did just that.  There is nothing more satisfying than having a con with a 3k alt, 100mph advantage and a faster plane over you, and them BNZ'ing you till they get over confident and then make a mistake. 

Moral of the story, don't be afraid to fight uphill.  You may die a lot in the beginning. but soon you learn how to reel them in, and get the reversal. 
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Offline Randy1

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2015, 01:04:18 PM »
. . .There is nothing more satisfying than having a con with a 3k alt, 100mph advantage and a faster plane over you, and them BNZ'ing you till they get over confident and then make a mistake.  . . .


And nothing more embarrassing than throwing away the advantage and loosing a fight like that.  I did that a few days ago.

Offline Scca

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2015, 02:21:39 PM »
And nothing more embarrassing than throwing away the advantage and loosing a fight like that.  I did that a few days ago.
So have I...  And you are correct it's  :joystick: :x
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2015, 03:42:35 PM »
Some tips and tricks for E fighting in that heathen of a plane.
P.S you probably aren't going to have any fun.

1. Always climb to at least 15-20k
              You will need this alt to plan strategic moves while entering the fight. Up this high you can work con's lower than you, most will not be as high as you, if they are than you can either engage and fight or many (190Ds, p51Ds, temps) will seemingly entend away and not even engage. At this alt you will be able to have a high E advantage and will be able to allow you to have a nice view of the entire fight. You can choose con's to engage without that pesky higher plane diving on you.

2. SA.
       While flying that high you will have a good view of the entire fight. You will be able to see all the higher con's in the area and you can choose whether to engage or not. The key here is to: A. Not let the enemies get hire than you: B. Do not dive on lower enemies if higher con's are threatening. Always engage with higher con's first. As soon as a plane starts diving on you, you have lost the E advantage, and if he is a meanie, will bring you lower and lower until they all jump you. What you will want to do is scope the area and make sure you are on top or engaging the higher enemies until they are not a theat anymore. Then you can begin setting up attacks on lower planes.

3. Attacking enimies while being aware of SA.
        Here is the tough part. Once you have decided on who to attack, which should be the highest enemy in the group BTW. You need to dive directly on top of them and attack using a downward spiral climb, dependind on the planes dives speed and compression, you may have to cut throttle some. (Attacking from the top makes it hard to avoid and some guys will not even see you). Now, you must be aware of who is around you and what kind of speed they are working with. Many times people with the E advantage will pull up and over immediately to pressure the enemy. But this is a bad decision if other con's are around and could potentially match your E. What you have to do is dive, make the shot ( do not follow if they turn) and then level out for about 7 seconds and then go into a slow climb to regian some alt. Depending on the enemies positions and con's behind them, you may want to extend climb for a ways until you are certian you are in top of all the enemies again. What you don't want to do is turn back around for for the con you just dove on immediately because all your 15K E position is toast, and if there are other con's around they will quickly match your E. The key is to stay above the enemies at all times, make your shots quickly, and then extend away and climb again till you are safe. Once you get low and see higher con's around you after multiple attack strikes you will have to get out of enemy territory and haul bellybutton until you can get out of icon range. Once they dive on you it's a whole new difficult ball game and this is where you lose the advantage.

The key to E flying is not to lose the E advantage vs the con you are attacking and the also the rest of the con's around you. You have to be going faster at low alts or be higher than them at all times to be a successful E fighter.

It is all about patients, shot placement, and getting out of icon range of higher threatening con's as you dive or get lower to to make kill shots. If you find yourself low and higher con's are threatening, you need to quickly go the other way so they don't see you and dive in you.

4. Fly with friendlies.
This is not a good plane to fly lone wolf with. It's just not. Too slow, gets picked a lot, and it doesn't turn that well. Make sure you got some friends with you to keep other cons busy. You don't want them all looking at you. Picking kills will be your best bet at getting kills and extending away safely. But DO NOT fall prey to getting low n slow trying to help a friendly.

This is why you may not have fun.

1. That plane is a crutch to shoot in. You may not make any shots on the first 5 passes, but you have to stay fast so DO NOT flip back around on them. It could get frustrating but you have to be patient. Remember, once you attempt a rope, all your E is crushed of other high planes that are on the way to engage you. You must get higher than all of them after an overshoot then you can turn back around and pick another plane to engage. It is tough in that plane because it is not fast. The more you turn back around the lower you will get. So you reallllly have to be high and fast coming back into the fight. This will take some patients.

2. It is slow, and does not turn thatwell
       Which means anytime you are around and enemy you have to be going much faster than them. Getting out fights is tough in that plane. You have to dive from up high to keep speed advantage. As soon as you engage a plane longer than about 8 seconds your E will be quickly diminishing. EI, don't engage a plane for longer than 8 seconds, unless it is 1v1 and you want to battle it out. But that is risky. Also time to extend and climb with take a lot of patients after you make a shot on a plane.

3. You can't really dogfight.
    It is a boring way to fly. You can't really mix it up because losing E is deadly. You gotta stay fast and stay away from planes engaging you.

E flying is all about being the engager, not the engagee.

Hope this helps.

I may have a good video from my E flying experience last month in the temp, I'll post it when I get home if I can find a good one.

<S>
      
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 06:22:44 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline darkzking

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2015, 12:48:20 AM »
Some tips and tricks for E fighting in that heathen of a plane.
P.S you probably aren't going to have any fun.

1. Always climb to at least 15-20k    


But my p39 will die from Lack of Oxygen at that alt :lol

and is this what you guys mean? http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,369520.msg4924756.html#msg4924756
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:05:35 AM by darkzking »
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Offline colmbo

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2015, 08:02:00 AM »
All fight are energy fights.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2015, 08:53:44 AM »
All fight are energy fights.
Zactly.  :aok



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Offline FLS

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2015, 09:22:58 AM »
All fight are energy fights.

Good point but there is a reason we use the term to differentiate fights.

In single combat with aircraft of similar performance you have a choice of the angles fight, using your energy to attain a position on the bandit's 6 for a tracking shot, or building/using an energy advantage to set up a snap shot.

With dissimilar aircraft, think Zero vs Mustang, The Zero will be the angles fighter and the Mustang will be the energy fighter because the difference in aircraft performance limits the choices available for success against an equal pilot.

Offline NikonGuy

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 02:10:51 AM »
Your not gonna win an energy fight in a 39 in the MA against an A6m .. because his four mate's in LA's, Yak-3's, Niki's & Ki-84's are never far away  :lol

In all seriousness you would have to have a lot of energy over your opponent because energy disapears fast in a 39, in game  :frown:

Fly with trim, throttle off in turns, have good aim .. easy  :D

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« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 02:12:27 AM by NikonGuy »
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Offline Scotch

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Re: How to fight with E
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2015, 02:17:38 AM »
Energy is not necessarily speed though. You can e-fight a -4hog in c47 if you want... I agree with my MacAW idle, Columbo.
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