plane performance charts and characteristics

[The Fugitive]

How does that tell you max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates?

Isn't knowing the performance numbers the key to evaluating comparative energy states?

You can let a simple answer be can you? I'd bet three quarters of the players couldn't name the max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates of their favorite plane.

To a large percentage of the players your answers are so far over their heads that it is just jibberish. To most players "left back on the joystick, right rudder when slow and nose up" is all the answer they want. They don't care about the "why's" of it, they just want to be able to do it. Most players as it is just pull the nose around as hard as they can and yank on the trigger when the icon goes from 1K to 1000 and don't let up until they pass/blow up/die.

Simple answers are ok to, baby steps.

If someone asks for more info, by all means dazzle away.
 

[FLS]

You can let a simple answer be can you? I'd bet three quarters of the players couldn't name the max sustained and instantaneous turn rates, max level speeds, and climb rates of their favorite plane.

To a large percentage of the players your answers are so far over their heads that it is just jibberish. To most players "left back on the joystick, right rudder when slow and nose up" is all the answer they want. They don't care about the "why's" of it, they just want to be able to do it. Most players as it is just pull the nose around as hard as they can and yank on the trigger when the icon goes from 1K to 1000 and don't let up until they pass/blow up/die.

Simple answers are ok to, baby steps.

If someone asks for more info, by all means dazzle away.

If you don't post BS in help and training I probably won't hurt your feelings. When you stick to what you know you can be helpful.

I admire Randy1 's willingness to learn, his ability to take constructive criticism, and his desire to help others so I help him as much as I can.

[-pjk--]

In this case. Numbers and degrees:  and othter "high"stuff is answer to question.
Flyboy is not a noob/beginner, but "old"hand  asking plane performance todays AH 

I might lose issue of your posting Fugi, but might be language problem in my sight... 

[The Fugitive]

In this case. Numbers and degrees:  and othter "high"stuff is answer to question.
Flyboy is not a noob/beginner, but "old"hand  asking plane performance todays AH 

I might lose issue of your posting Fugi, but might be language problem in my sight... 

I apologize. Randy1 made a good point for what it was worth, a certain "Mr Know-it-all" HAD to chime in. His holyer than tho attitude pushes me over the edge as it seems, to him, no one else can make a correct answer. I have fixed the issue and can affirm the "Ignore" feature works on these new boards and I should have no more issues.

I hope the links provided help knock the rust off Flyboy, Welcome back!

[FLS]

In this case. Numbers and degrees:  and othter "high"stuff is answer to question.
Flyboy is not a noob/beginner, but "old"hand  asking plane performance todays AH 

I didn't think I needed to explain turning to Flyboy but other people read these posts so I often include extra explanations. 
Some people have been here 10 years without learning the basics.   

[Oldman731]

Some people have been here 10 years without learning the basics. 

* raises hand *


Sometimes even longer.


- oldman

[FLS]

* raises hand *


Sometimes even longer.


- oldman

Training is available. 

[Badboy]

several other links to other versions have recently been taken down....... as most of his pics/diagrams......

Hi TC,

Nothing on the public forums has been taken down, at least not intentionally.

However, some of the links to the bootstrap calculator may not work if they pointed to out of date versions.

Regards

Badboy

[Badboy]

Still, in all of this, developing an eye for "E" is the key.

Yep, and the visual acuity of that eye can be greatly increased when you know exactly what you are looking for. Developing an eye for "E" is important, but only part of the story. It won't do you much good without the knowledge of how that "E" influences your manoeuvrability relative to other aircraft and without the flying skills and command of BFM needed to pull it all together into appropriate action. No one thing is key, it's more like a lot of little keys

Badboy

[Badboy]

what is missing for me is the speeds in which the climb and turn radius tests where made. any ideas on how to find out?

Hi Flyboy

The bootstrap calculator contains a .pdf file that explains the testing methodology so you can acquire your own data, but a huge amount of data has already been collected and presented by MOSQ in his Sustained turn list which can be downloaded here: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=4F7912F19B484B3B!725&authkey=!AH41epN2ncdKKcg

If you would like to learn more about the topic try this link: http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_011a.html

Hope that helps.

Badboy

[FLS]

Thanks for the links Badboy. I forgot about that list.

[Badboy]

Thanks for the links Badboy. I forgot about that list.

No problem, you are doing an outstanding job supporting the community with valuable help and information. A highly commendable endeavor that I am sure is greatly appreciated by everyone who comes here with a genuine interest in learning.

Keep up the great work.

Regards

Badboy

[Flyboy]

thanks for the info and help from everyone,
badboy that's an amazing resource, thanks for sharing! also the table mosq made is a great tool.
what is missing for me is the speeds the turns are done at, or what is the best speed to hold maximum sustained turn
i am looking to compare different speeds of the same plane and not different planes

[FLS]

For max sustained turn the load will typically be between 2.5 and 3g. If you film a spiral climb with a low climb rate at 3g and note the speed where the stall buffet starts that will get you close to the speed you need.  Testing around that speed and g and comparing your turn rates should establish the best speed and g load. Since we seldom fight in flat turns at the tested weights and altitude I simplify by recommending you know your 3g stall speed which is often near your minimum vertical maneuver speed.

[Zimme83]

Something worth mentioning is the fact that a slow plane isnt nessesairly a better turner than a fast one. For ex: the Spit XIV can turn with a Spit V if their weight are the same. But the spit XIV usually turns in a lot higher speed than the Spit V and thus the turn radius is larger. Slowing down the XIV to "Mk V speed" and their turn radius will be the same. The average player will have the impression that the Mk V is a much better turner than the later spits but in reality its just slower. (again if their weight are the same)