Author Topic: Axis heavy bomber? (Read 2432 times)

moose · « **on:** August 12, 2001, 07:24:00 PM »

Just saw on AGW mention of the P108. I dont know anything about it but this guy seems to.
http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/022769.html

Even though they want it for WB, maybe htc will beat em to the punch. It would add diversity to the axis too(another italian aircraft) so it wouldnt be 'just another lw plane'

anyway, just a thought

Staga · « **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2001, 07:47:00 PM »

Only couple dozen was made AFAIR.

Kieran · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2001, 07:50:00 PM »

True. It was one of the best aircraft made by the Italians, roughly on par with the B17. They weren't widely used, probably more because of the state of industry in Italy and the situation with the war.

Staga · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2001, 07:54:00 PM »

Hmm some sites say couple dozen, some say less than 40 and some say 163

Kieran · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2001, 08:28:00 PM »

I can find "24".

Staga · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2001, 08:33:00 PM »

It was made in P.108A (artillery, 102mm cannon AFAIR),B(Bomber),T(Transport) and C(Civil ?) models.

Maybe that 24 was those B models ???
Anyway not too many were manufactured in those days.

Kieran · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2001, 08:35:00 PM »

What I get is that the B was the basic model, and the Artillery and Transport versions were based on production B's. This would mean 24 total.

Staga · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2001, 08:46:00 PM »

Transport models were having larger frame than other models.

I found one nice site: http://hotel.wineasy.se/ipms/stuff_eng_ibes_p108.htm

BTW These IPMS-sites have usually very good pics of planes and their details

Karnak · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2001, 09:19:00 PM »

Piaggio P.108B / R1 08C

Country: Italy.
Type: P.108B - seven crew heavy bomber. R1 08C - transport.
Powerplants: Four 1500hp (Piaggio RXII RC35 18-cylinder radials; three bladed propellers.)
Dimensions: Wing span 104ft 11¼in (32.00m); length 73ft 1½in (22.29m); height 19ft 8¼in (6.00m).
Weights: R1 08B - empty 38,1951b (17325kg); max loaded 65,8851b (29885kg).
Armament: R108B - eight 12.7mm machine guns in nose, ventral turrets, waist and outer nacelle positions; max 77161b (3500kg) bomb load or three 18in (45.7cm) torpedos.
Performance: R108B - max speed 267mph (430km/h) at 13,780ft (4200m); cruise speed 199mph (320km/h); time to 16,405ft (5000m) 21.1 min; service ceiling 27,890ft (8500m); range 1550-2187 miles (2495-3520km).
Operators: Germany, Italy.
Production: 1 R1 08,163 P.1 08B, 16 P.1 08C, 1 R1 08M, 1 P.1 08T, total 182.

P.108B Advantages: Good bombload and defensive armament.

P.108B Disadvatages: Slow and few produced.

For comparison, two other big Axis aircraft:

He177A-5/R2

Powerplant: Daimler-Benz DB 610A-1 (port) and B-1 (starboard) 24-cylinder liquid-cooled engines, each rated at 2200 kW (2,950 hp) for take-off.
Dimensions: wing span 31.44 m (103 ft 1 in); length 22.00 m (72 ft 1 in); height 6.39 m (21 ft); wing area 102 m² (1,098 sq ft)
Weights: empty equipped 16800 kg (37,037 lb); maximum take-off 31000 kg (68,342 lb)
Performance: maximum speed 488 km/h (303 mph) at 6100 m (20,000 ft); maximum range 5500 km (3,417 miles) with two Hs 293A; service ceiling 8000 m (26,246 ft); time to 3050 m (10,000 ft) 10 minutes
Armament: one 7.9mm MG 81J machine gun in glazed nose; one 20mm MG 151/20 in front ventral gondola; two 7.9mm MG 81 machine guns in rear ventral gondola; two 13mm MG 131 in dorsal barbette; one 13mm MG 131 in dorsal turret; one MG 151/20 in tail; internal weapons bay for 16 SC 50 bombs or four SC 250 or two SC 500; external pylons for two LMA III parachute sea mines, LT torpedoes' Henschel Hs 293A or FX 1400 Fritz X missiles

He177 Advantages: Very heavy bombload and high speed

He177 Disadvantages: Twin engine configuration increases vulnerability.

Kawanishi H8K2 "Emily"

Dimensions: Span 38.00 m, Length 28.13 m, Height 9.15 m, Wing area 160.0 m2
Weights: Empty 18,380 kg, Loaded 24,500 kg, Maximum 32,500 kg, Wing loading 153.1 kg/m2, Power loading 3.3 kg/hp
Performance: Maximum speed 252 kt at 5,000 m, Cruising speed 160 kt at 4,000 m, Climb to 5,000 m in 10 min 12 sec, Service ceiling 8,850 m, Maximum range 3,862 naut miles
Armament: 20 mm Type 99 Model 1 cannon in bow, dorsal and tail turrets and two beam hatches, and 7.7 mm Type 92 machine-guns in ventral, port and starboard fuselage sides and cockpit hatches (H8K2, H8K3 and H8K4)
External load: two 800 kg torpedoes, or eight 250 kg bombs, or sixteen 60 kg bombs or depth-charges (H8K1 to H8K4)
Powerplant: Four Mitsubishi MK4Q Kasei 22 fourteen-cylinder air-cooled radials, rated at 1,850 hp for take-off, 1,680 hp at 2,100 m and 1,540 hp at 5,500 m, driving four-blade metal propellers (H8K2, H8K2-L and H8K3)
Accommodation: Crew of ten (H8K1 to H8K4). Crew of nine and 29 passengers or 64 troops (H8K2-L)

H8K2 Advantages: Extremely durable and very well armed. Great climb rate.

H8K2 Disadvantages: Light bombload and few produced. Only flyable from water.

moose · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2001, 10:51:00 PM »

well, the one difference i see with having an italian bomber is that it'd be completely new and a different approach then what anyone would think.

Up to date HTC has seemed to pride itself in doing things different

juzz · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2001, 12:01:00 AM »

S.M.79 should be the first Italian bomber, over 1200 produced.