Light Sport aircraft purchase....what to expect

[Dimebag]

seriously considering jumping in head first into sport flying..

Currently, I have no license or no experience, but I know I would love being able to do it.  The opportunities it would open as far as travel is concerned are amazing..

I've been looking at Lightning LS1's, Cessna 162s, Czech SportCruisers, enclosed canopy planes with lots of fancy avionics...

Besides the cost of the plane itself,  what can I expect?

-License (1200 using my plane, 3000 using theirs)
-hangar fee's 1200 a year
-insurance 1500 a year
-gas, be it av or auto 3.50-5.50 a gallon
-maintenance fund (oil changes, tune ups, etc)   
I've done the math on this to the best of my knowledge, if I buy a low hour plane (less than 200 hours) I can set back 25-30 per hour of flight (plus fuel) and be prepared when TBO time comes for the engine replacement, that's granted I don't sell the plane at 800 hours or so and get another low hour one.

besides the unexpected, what else?  for that matter, what unexpected should be expected?

[DaveBB]

I've always heard that if you fly, it ends up costing $125/hr when all the costs are added up. 

[Oldman731]

seriously considering jumping in head first into sport flying..

Currently, I have no license or no experience, but I know I would love being able to do it.  The opportunities it would open as far as travel is concerned are amazing..

I've been looking at Lightning LS1's, Cessna 162s, Czech SportCruisers, enclosed canopy planes with lots of fancy avionics...

Besides the cost of the plane itself,  what can I expect?

-License (1200 using my plane, 3000 using theirs)
-hangar fee's 1200 a year
-insurance 1500 a year
-gas, be it av or auto 3.50-5.50 a gallon
-maintenance fund (oil changes, tune ups, etc)   
I've done the math on this to the best of my knowledge, if I buy a low hour plane (less than 200 hours) I can set back 25-30 per hour of flight (plus fuel) and be prepared when TBO time comes for the engine replacement, that's granted I don't sell the plane at 800 hours or so and get another low hour one.

besides the unexpected, what else?  for that matter, what unexpected should be expected?

I haven't any experience with the sport pilot license, or with planes limited to that use, so your figures may be accurate.  Otherwise, I would be surprised if you could get 100LL for $5.50/gallon anywhere.  Hanger fees, same thing (around here - perhaps more expensive than by you - you're looking at $400+ per month).  Don't know if you have to do an annual inspection on sport planes, but I suspect you do.  For my purposes, I figure that a hangered plane here will run $10,000/year, without even flying it.

But that's around here.  Go over to your local airport and start getting real prices from the FBO.  Talk to the A&P mechanics, see what they charge.  And go over the FARs again to see just exactly what maintenance you're committed to.

- oldman

[Dimebag]

knew I was forgetting something...
annuals... 800 a year

our hangar (inside) is 100 a month if paid for a year up front... reckon that's a deal from what else I've read

I know all the costs vary on how much I fly... at 4-5 gallons per hour, I think I can go for 60 an hour tops..  and at 135 mph cruise, I can get down the highway a ways..

pondering a RV7 too, but being a real plane with higher horsepower engine, the license is 3 times as high and the fuel burn is a smidge higher, but I can also cruise at 175 or so.  need to compare insurance... it really surprised me insurance was as cheap as it was for a rookie pilot... that's a good thing!

will check out local airports and pilots as soon as my car sells... till then, plane is just a dream anyway

thanks for the replies and looking forward to more

[Dimebag]

oh yea, other perk to light sport plane is the majority have a whole plane parachute
if that aint reason enough to pick that over a "real" plane, I don't know what is lol

[colmbo]

I owned a 1957 Cessna 182 for 9 years.

Annuals varied from a little over $1000 to $6000 plus (first year, had to get things legal/right).  If you I/A will allow you to help with the annual (remove covers, etc) it will save you a considerable amount of money. 

My insurance was about $1500/year.  I had around 1000 hours total, 500+ in type, Commercial and Instrument.  I had no restrictions on use of the aircraft, I could land on glaciers, gravel bars, etc.  Quite often insurance will restrict where you can operate, sometimes restricting you to paved runways.

While the Light/Sport aircraft are cheaper and the certificate is easier to get you might find that category lacking.  The aircraft by definition are limited to two people, they are low powered and have limited load carrying capability.  The Cessna 162 shows a useful load of 490 pounds.  With two 170 pounds people that only leaves 150 pounds for fuel, survival gear, underwear and toothbrush.  And the 135 MPH cruise is probably closer to 120-125 in reality.

Good luck.  Having an airplane is a blast.

You don't have to have a hangar.  A lot of airplanes do fine sitting outside.

[flight17]

Only seen a 162 once and hated it. Everyone I talked to that had flown it also hated it.

The Piper/Czech sport cruiser is nice, though I have not flown one.

[Zoney]

Mooney



That is all.

[pembquist]

What is the 1200 vs 3000 number in you licensing budget? It might make sense to start learning how to fly before you buy an airplane. Spend a thousand on an instructor and plane just to get familiar with it and be able to make a more informed decision. I'm hazy on the sport pilot/lsa thing, you can't do IMC or night, correct?

[MrKrabs]

Mooney



That is all.

Still better than dumping money in a boat.

[Gman]

Before being stuck on disability and having a health record that would forever screw me for getting even a rec permit here in Canada, I looked into all of this as well in the recent past.  R22 helo as well.

What is the OP plan regarding the actual aircraft cost?  Most of these planes are 100$k plus from what I've seen.  Purchase outright, or a shared ownership?  A shared ownership if you get along with the other partners can really cut all your costs you've listed by a significant amount IMO.  Have you entertained that or other options at all?

I'm unfamiliar with the sport class, what are the requirements for the license in the USA?  Our recreation pilot license up here will cost at least 5000$ minimum, and that's if you stay at it diligently and don't need to retrain or re familiarize yourself with past hours.  I believe it's 25 or 30 hours and 5 solo here.  What are the restrictions, and can you upgrade to a PPL after a certain amount of sport flying experience?

[Traveler]

Besides the cost of the plane itself,  what can I expect?

-License (1200 using my plane, 3000 using theirs)
-hangar fee's 1200 a year
-insurance 1500 a year
-gas, be it av or auto 3.50-5.50 a gallon
-maintenance fund (oil changes, tune ups, etc)   
I've done the math on this to the best of my knowledge, if I buy a low hour plane (less than 200 hours) I can set back 25-30 per hour of flight (plus fuel) and be prepared when TBO time comes for the engine replacement, that's granted I don't sell the plane at 800 hours or so and get another low hour one.

besides the unexpected, what else?  for that matter, what unexpected should be expected?

You need to check with your flight school or CFI if your aircraft can be used for flight instruction?  You need to check with your insurance carrier to see if your aircraft is covered for use in flight instruction?

To me, after doing all of the cost analysis you might discover that it is a better option to rent a school aircraft  for flight instruction, let their aircraft take all the beatings, save your money to purchase for after you get your rating.  Depending on the local weather which will determine how often you train, be as aggressive in training as you can, two times a week.
Ask the flight school how many hours , realistically you are going to end up buying to get your rating.   Most flight school rent training aircraft wet (fuel included).  Talk to the CFI and ask him for some realistic numbers.  Also, make sure that the CFI is on board and understands your goals and requirements and is ready to commit to the training schedule needed to accomplish it.   If during your training the CFI cancels more than once or appears not to be ready for your flight lesson, appears to be winging it.   Does not present you with all of the necessary lesson plans at your first lesson,  change instructors, don't wast your time.   If you arrive for a flight lesson and the aircraft scheduled is not available, change flight schools.   Remember, things , little things break on aircraft all the time, a lot more often on aircraft being used for training, let the flight school pay the  bills to keep the training aircraft in the air.  It's cheaper in the long run.  I've been teaching people to fly for 35 years.  Right now, with a block of cash, going into any flight school gives you some power , use it wisely.  Purchasing block time on aircraft is a big cost saver, something you can't do when you own the aircraft.  Also buying CFI block time is sometimes available as well.  Good luck and enjoy the experience. 

[Wolfala]

I own a Cirrus, so one of those "real planes" with a parachute. A few things: skip the 162, that plane is an abortion. The LS1 and Czech Sport Cruiser are great choices. That said, there are very real issues so I'll be blunt: you need money, a lot of it. You need enough to at any point in time write a check for $30k.for what reason, any reason. I can shut an an engine tomorrow and I'm out $50k, so there's 1 reason. The numbers on my plane are, let's be frank here: humbling.

Parachute repack: $15k
Engine: $45k
Mx reserve per hour: $180 per hour
Gas: $75 per hour
Hangar: $800 month
Taxes: depends on ur locality
Inspections: $4000
300 hours per year: it's a number

[Dimebag]

the rotax 912ULS is 25k plus labor, I was quoted 4k for that
the jabiru 3300 6cy in the LS1 is less

fuel burn on either is 5-6 gallons per hour... if I burn 100LL at 5 a gallon, that's 30 per hour

what is mx reserve?

hangar again was 1200 a year here

tax, don't recall the calculation but it was 1000 a year on a 75k plane

annual was 800

chutes are 7k new for lighter planes

if I bought a low hour plane, can I not realistically make it to 2000 hours before the engine needs to be replaced? 

the cirrus is very sharp, but I think your figures and costs are atleast double what I'd be looking at...

[Traveler]

I flew a J3 for more years then I care to remember.  My Dad taught me to fly in that plane, when I took over hangers were 30 a month, I flew out of a grass field and loved every second of it.  My wife soloed in it, she just wanted to learn enough so that if something happened to me, she could land.  Kathy had a red Miata that she would race me to different airshows along the east coast.  I used to put the J3 on the line in static displays for vintage aircraft , won a few awards.   Point is she would beat me by hours , her traveling the interstate highway system at 80 to 90 miles an hour, me in the J3 at 50 miles an hour.  Head winds never seemed to bother her.