sound card?

[Pudgie]

This link compares benchmarks taken with the creative separate card to onboard audio solution. The differences between performance are almost within the margin of error.

http://hothardware.com/reviews/Creative-Sound-Blaster-ZxR-Versus-Onboard-Audio?page=4

I do agree w/ this review on both counts......

My RIVG's onboard sound chip's inability to maintain fast frame rates was not it's weakness, it's sound quality output was, especially the bass response which I have noted was lacking on every onboard sound solution that I have owned to date & was 1 of the main reasons why I got discrete sound cards to use in all my prior boxes.

When I bought this RIVG 1 of the selling points was the potential of the onboard sound solution as it was reported to be heavily influenced by Creative X-Fi tech & in games the low frequency sound output, resonance & response is paramount for good gaming immersion & music reproduction, at least it is for me. The Realtek onboard chip just didn't deliver it to my satisfaction no matter what I did w/ the equalizer & so I went looking for a discrete card to put in my box & the 2 PCI-E vers of the Asus Xonar series cards I already have are the original Xonar DX & D2X that came out when MS Vista came out & so are not the better solutions to use at this time (I also have a PCI vers Xonar..the DS 7.1 that uses an auxillary power cable to power it but it's useless now as my box's mobo has no PCI slot) so I read on this BBS a post that mentioned this Creative SB Z series cards so I got 1 to try it out.......& the rest is academic from there.............

With the advent of graphics cards also being able to process surround sound as well the time is coming where even a discrete sound card will not be needed for sound output fidelity either....................

One day this will all become a moot subject in computer land......................

 

[Masherbrum]

The Creative zX is better than my GA-Z87X-UD4H onboard audio with a built-in 600 ohm headphone amp (Realtek ALC898).   The card has noticeable improvements in both gaming and music playback and rounded out my PC.

[Gman]

Again, not all onboard audio is created equal.

The latest x99 platform gaming MB from MSI and others have the Creative SB Cinema 2 chip, which from several comments I've read here and there is performing at least on par with dedicated SB cards in those users who have it opinions, which is my experience so far as well.  There is very little out there in terms of reviews and data that I can find so far.

I have the SB Zx in one machine, and my x99 platform we just built has this on board new Creative audio.  I don't have any testing equipment or methods, but they sound virtually identical with the different headphones I have.

From MSI's site -

The Creative Cinema 2 has

- Isolated audio PCB, which they claim " acts like a dedicated soundcard by physically isolating the audio circuitry which is separated by a red LED path. Less interference gives you a more clear audio signal."

- Direct audio power, " A dedicated power input to Audio Boost 2 allows for a more powerful and stable power delivery, resulting in a more explosive and pure sound experience."

- EMI shielding
- Dual headphone boosting/amps
- Professional Nichicon Japanese capacitors, specially designed for audio purposes
- Gold Audio connectors
- 5v stable audio power for USB DAC, which means little to me really.
- Capability to use a discrete direct power input, one can switch between this and MB supplied power


Anyhow, I'm not sure how all of this stacks up to the stand alone SB Z series on paper, but I can attest that the effect on the ears is the same, so far at least.  I have no idea if the new SB Cinema 2 onboard uses more resources/CPU/MB or whatever power up, versus either older onboard sound systems or the Creative SB Z cards.  I do like it though, and considering the system is a 5960x I'm not going to lose sleep over any loss of performance, as the sound as I said is at least as good as my system with the SB Zx.  I hope the new Skylake motheboards will come with this better onboard audio, at least some of the "gaming" models anyway.  If a stand alone card comes along that really trumps this onboard newer sound from MSI/Creative, I'll go back to doing it that way again.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Again, not all onboard audio is created equal.

The audio solution in my 'budget build' thread motherboard for example uses shielded components, high quality caps, dedicated headphone amplifier and the whole audio section is physically separated from the rest of the motherboard.



http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/mainboard/79905-asus-z97-pro-gamer/?page=8

[Chalenge]

Except it has never been about interference. It amazes me that just a month ago we had this same discussion and the problems with any and all onboard systems was clearly defined, and yet it is already forgotten.

You can listen to audio in the playback of a DVD on your system and it will be much clearer (perhaps) on the X99. Play audio in a video game like Aces High and the same old problems crop up. Again, this is not a problem in Aces High, but with the way onboard audio functions.

I didn't read anything in the specifications that indicates that the "new" onboard audio has independent memory, or a separate memory pathway, or anything else that might correct the issues in play.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Except it has never been about interference. It amazes me that just a month ago we had this same discussion and the problems with any and all onboard systems was clearly defined, and yet it is already forgotten.

You can listen to audio in the playback of a DVD on your system and it will be much clearer (perhaps) on the X99. Play audio in a video game like Aces High and the same old problems crop up. Again, this is not a problem in Aces High, but with the way onboard audio functions.

I didn't read anything in the specifications that indicates that the "new" onboard audio has independent memory, or a separate memory pathway, or anything else that might correct the issues in play.

Yep I'm in shambles with trouble. Steady 144fps, no stutters or problems. Maybe I should invest an extra 100 bucks to a sound card. 

[guncrasher]

Yep I'm in shambles with trouble. Steady 144fps, no stutters or problems. Maybe I should invest an extra 100 bucks to a sound card. 

but that's not really the question is it?  built in sound chips still slow down the cpu.  how much?  well for some the extra 100 bucks it's worth while.  after all you did spend 500 euros give or take  on an internal ssd that really wont make your computer faster.

then again that is your money.  but for some reason you only think that money the other guys spend is wasted and you spend money the right way .


semp

[Skuzzy]

There really is no way to ascertain the exact impact overlapped (100% asynchronous) audio will have versus serialized audio (100% synchronous), by using any existing applications.  It is a fool's errand to try and do so.  Only tells me that is a site to avoid any type of real idea of how anything works.

You want to know what overlapped I/O will buy, versus serialized I/O?  Try running a render with Renderman (you might be able to accomplish it with Carrara 8.5 Pro too) set to the highest CPU priority AND playing a piece of music.  You need to play the music before you start Renderman so it is preloaded into memory.  Oh, the software used at that WEB site to measure will not work in this scenario.  It cannot get any CPU time to run.  The fallacy of such software.

Onboard audio will stammer and stutter, quite frequently.  If you understand hardware and system software, you will understand why.

[Getback]

It's hard for me to gauge the improvement in an unbiased fashion since just threw some bucks on a new card. I will tell you I am happy with the sound.

[Gman]

Like I said,

There is very little out there in terms of reviews and data that I can find so far.

- so far as the "new" Creative built onboard "gaming" sound on a few of the newer x99 and supposedly forthcoming SKylake ready boards.

The only review I've found that even really touched on it, did a poor job in reviewing the audio IMO, and I've yet to find one that has compared say a common sound card like the Creative SB Z series or Asus Zonar to this new SB 2 onboard sound.  http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/X99S_GAMING_7/12.html  is such an example.  There have been a couple of youtube reviews of this Cinema 2 onboard sound, but they've not done anything such as Skuzzy recommended to test it, they've only really just offered the same observation that I've had, that the sound itself is about as improved as you get with the SB Z cards compared to previous onboard sound.

I'll download a rendering program and try running a render both with the Cinema 2 Creative OB sound and then I'll run it on another system with the Z card.  I'll disable the onboard Cinema 2 sound on the MSI x99 board, and I'll stick the SB Zx card in there and try it as well, as it wouldn't be a fair or accurate test running a 5960x vs an older x79 system where my Zx card is currently sitting, as one will obviously render far faster, and possibly more smoothly than the other, which could make the music or song stutter for other reasons.  So, I'll try and find the stuff in the bios to disable the onboard sound on the new MSI board, and try it.

[Skuzzy]

Make sure all the CPU cores are at, or above, 98% utilization when you run the test.  A good render program should have no issue doing that.

I know in my system the audio played perfectly using the sound card, while the onboard audio device cut out, dropped sections of audio and just did really badly.  Now, to be fair, my onboard audio is a crappy RealTek chip.  I would be interested to hear the results from other onboard devices.

I am certain it can be improved upon.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Make sure all the CPU cores are at, or above, 98% utilization when you run the test.  A good render program should have no issue doing that.

I know in my system the audio played perfectly using the sound card, while the onboard audio device cut out, dropped sections of audio and just did really badly.  Now, to be fair, my onboard audio is a crappy RealTek chip.  I would be interested to hear the results from other onboard devices.

I am certain it can be improved upon.

This is a scenario almost soluely affecting rendering through, games do not push 4 or more cores to permanent 99% load. Having said that, even with the G3258 that only has two cores AH runs like a champ using the onboard solution.

[Skuzzy]

This is a scenario almost soluely affecting rendering through, games do not push 4 or more cores to permanent 99% load. Having said that, even with the G3258 that only has two cores AH runs like a champ using the onboard solution.

Not talking about any "issue".  Only talking about a proper way to gauge the impact overlapped I/O versus serialized I/O can have.  The purpose of any such test is to actually attempt to find the true impact it can have.  If you want to find a case where its impact is minimal, then that is quite easy to do as well.  However, any decent benchmark would cover both cases.

Aces High, currently, only uses two cores and not full time.  The granularity of any game is very large which hides many subtle gains made, unless the entire system (all cores included) are being utilized.  That said, I have plenty of reports of sound stutters in my files, all related to the implementation of the sound chip.

Many motherboards layout the interrupts to be shared between the network chip and the onboard sound chip, or the SATA controller and the sound chip.  So performance will vary from motherboard to motherboard.

The gains in using fully parallel I/O are quantifiable (physics and basic electronics are indisputable).  Just because you cannot make use of the benefit does not mean there is no benefit.