Flat Turn Fight

[hgtonyvi]

What violator is saying works good for 109's. It all depends on what plane you are flying when performing a flat turn. But violator technique is actually the best way on late war planes. Something like a zeke, brewster, ki43 etc, you would wana pull kind of inside the turn to lock on the opponent 6 since they will most likely be in a late war plane and that can force you to fall back if they end up leveling off. So use turning planes to pull a quick shot before opponent runs away. Or if in you are in a late war plane do what violator said(Inside high yo yo turning).

[Zimme83]

If u are in a plane that can outturn your opponent it might be an idea to not turn as much as u could, just enough to stay with him in the turn. this works best if your opponent is a faster plane. For ex if u in a Zeke or Brew against a Pony. That way u could conserve your E and make him bleed his off faster than u. (yes u can do that) And when he is slow enough tighten the turn an move in for the kill.

Most fights are lost by the loser rather than won by the winner. In other words, the guy making the biggest or the most mistakes loses. The notion that you win with a winning move is misleading. If neither side makes a mistake or both sides fail to take advantage of mistakes it can be a long fight. Watch the bandit, think about his intent and watch for mistakes.

If up against a plane like the Zeke its good to know that they are quite hard to handle at stall speed and an average pilot will have trouble to avoid misstakes in a turn fight at stall speed.

[morfiend]

So in a flat turn fight just dump all flaps? Too easy, but I feel like I'm still going to lose. Is there any thing else that will get me to make a turn tighter other then just dumping flaps?

 A proper understanding of the energy egg and use of lift vector can accomplish what you are looking for.



   YMMV.



   

[DmonSlyr]

 A proper understanding of the energy egg and use of lift vector can accomplish what you are looking for.



   YMMV.



   

Regarding that quote, I know you like flying the F4Us. Instead of trying to turn the plane in a circle. The F4Us can actually hover turn, much like a helicoptor. No other plane in AH can do this. It is a combination if using rudder, keeping the nose up, throttle and stall control and using slight aileron in the direction you want to go. By doing this, you can spin around and get inside turners because you are hover turning (skidding around) rather than flying in a circle. You do have to be going super slow of course. Right on the edge of the wing falling over.

[morfiend]

Actually I havent flown an F4U since around 06 or 07!

  There were plenty of corsair trainers at the time so I never bothered with them and the only F4U I ever really flew was the birdcage back before we had sepperate arenas.





   

[FLS]

Instead of going in a flat circle. Go up and down while you are doing the flat turn. This will give you a tiny notch if alt, then when you go down you'll have a tiny bit E. Often times, if I'm above 800ft I'll attempt to cut in and go into a dive to attempt a loop over the top.

 Think of it as a wobbly circle going up and down, on one end you are high, the other side you are low. At the high side, you can roll into a nose a nose dive by cutting inside the circle and then using that E to do a loop or Emil over the top.

That's using the energy egg.

Regarding that quote, I know you like flying the F4Us. Instead of trying to turn the plane in a circle. The F4Us can actually hover turn, much like a helicoptor. No other plane in AH can do this. It is a combination if using rudder, keeping the nose up, throttle and stall control and using slight aileron in the direction you want to go. By doing this, you can spin around and get inside turners because you are hover turning (skidding around) rather than flying in a circle. You do have to be going super slow of course. Right on the edge of the wing falling over.

You're saying at the top of the egg you can turn tighter and set your lift vector to bring your nose up on the bandit.
I'd add that other aircraft can also do it.

Just pointing that out for people who didn't make the connection.   

[JunkyII]

FLS, I might just need to find you in the TA one night and discuss this....I learn better from seeing it

[FLS]

Sounds good. PM me to set up a time when you're ready.

[DmonSlyr]

Actually I havent flown an F4U since around 06 or 07!

  There were plenty of corsair trainers at the time so I never bothered with them and the only F4U I ever really flew was the birdcage back before we had sepperate arenas.





   

Ahh lol. I meant to imply junky when I said "you". I need to stop doing that. I was talking about the quote you had posted about what junky said about turning sharper.

The trick is a hovering rudder flat stall turn. The size of the wings and the rudder and flaps make this plane almost float in the air. So its not like you are turning in a circle with your ailerons and elevator. You are turning flat in the air with your stall right on the edge in the direction you are spinning. Basically a controlled flat spin in order to stay in the middle of the circle turn and attempting to get a shot before you have to get your nose over.

FLS. You could maybe try it in some other planes, but it's not going to be like what the F4U can do simply because of the structure of the aircraft and how it can handle stalls.

RudEboi, that trick I mentioned earlier also works quite well in the P47s as well. 

[BaldEagl]

There's only three things to consider in a flat nose to tail turn fight; flaps or not, how hard to pull the stick and closure rate.

In a same plane match-up the guy who can pull deepest into the stall without wobbling his plane is likely going to win, but, you may not want to depending on closure.  Reading where the other guy is in the turn will dictate the use of flaps and whether you pull for lead or lag.  Lead decreases turn radius but increases turn rate while lag increases radius but decreases rate.  The art of the flat turn is reading and responding to closure correctly and making the right decisions regarding rate and radius.  I agree that even a slight amount of vertical movement can be beneficial.

Once you're in a flat nose to tail turn fight you'd better win as there's no easy way out without first turning it into a flat nose to nose turn fight.

[FLS]

There's only three things to consider in a flat nose to tail turn fight; flaps or not, how hard to pull the stick and closure rate.

In a same plane match-up the guy who can pull deepest into the stall without wobbling his plane is likely going to win, but, you may not want to depending on closure.  Reading where the other guy is in the turn will dictate the use of flaps and whether you pull for lead or lag.  Lead decreases turn radius but increases turn rate while lag increases radius but decreases rate.  The art of the flat turn is reading and responding to closure correctly and making the right decisions regarding rate and radius.  I agree that even a slight amount of vertical movement can be beneficial.

Once you're in a flat nose to tail turn fight you'd better win as there's no easy way out without first turning it into a flat nose to nose turn fight.

This is not correct. You imply that there is no low speed limit to best sustained turn rate. When you get too slow to pull 2.5 - 3g, depending on which aircraft you're flying, turn rate will decrease.

Lead pursuit does not decrease turn radius or increase turn rate. Turn radius and rate are a function of speed and load factor regardless of pursuit curve.

[hgtonyvi]

Violator I know the move you are talking about. I do it Sometimes when i get into trouble. It takes some time getting use to the weird gravitational lift but once you get use to it its awesome.

[JunkyII]

Ahh lol. I meant to imply junky when I said "you". I need to stop doing that. I was talking about the quote you had posted about what junky said about turning sharper.

The trick is a hovering rudder flat stall turn. The size of the wings and the rudder and flaps make this plane almost float in the air. So its not like you are turning in a circle with your ailerons and elevator. You are turning flat in the air with your stall right on the edge in the direction you are spinning. Basically a controlled flat spin in order to stay in the middle of the circle turn and attempting to get a shot before you have to get your nose over.

FLS. You could maybe try it in some other planes, but it's not going to be like what the F4U can do simply because of the structure of the aircraft and how it can handle stalls.

RudEboi, that trick I mentioned earlier also works quite well in the P47s as well.

Hogs are easy mode, I only fly them when I'm perk farming in a -1

[glzsqd]

-1 aint easy mode

[JunkyII]

-1 aint easy mode

It's not hard