Bombing & Bailing is getting ridiculous

[guncrasher]

I'm surprised on how often it actually been happening lately.  Last night intercepted a formation of bombers that were inbound V85 and still over water.  As I got 3k out, the player bailed out of his bombers.  Since he had yet to reach V85, the only conclusion that one could surmise is that the player bailed out of his bombers short of the target because he didn't want me to shoot him down.

ack-ack

and yet how many did you shoot down who didnt bail?



semp

[Scca]

kvuo75, ink is right.

It's an air combat game with simulator qualities


Regarding the dissenters of the OP, I think the off prime time experience is very different than the prime time experience.  During prime time, we don't have to deal as much with heavy ENY, finding fights side switch issues and bomb & bailers.  I think from what I am reading, the off primetime crowd has a little tougher time getting some quality fights. 

It also sounds to me like there is a specific group of people that like to bomb things, and bail at the first sign of resistance, that also fly at the same general time as the OP.  Point is, just because YOU don't have that experience, doesn't mean others aren't experiencing it frequently. 

Of course, the only thing bailing does is keep someone else from getting a kill.  The bailers is scored as if it was a death, so they really aren't gaining any advantage other than be a little "kittycat"

[guncrasher]

scca the point is what are you gonna do, look at it from a business point of view.  you take away their "fun", they will stop playing.  they stop playing then you wont have any bailers.  so what did you actually gain other than make some players quit?  you still not gonna have anybody to fight.  so what exactly would be the point?

look at another problem that recently has increased.  people will switch from fighting over a base to just run endless resupplies of m3's to town.  do you call that fighting?  I dont think so, but it's their 15 bucks so let them play as they see fit.


semp

[Kingpin]

you take away their "fun", they will stop playing.
semp

How is bailing from undamaged aircraft "fun" for you, Semp?

[Kingpin]

It's not just getting ridiculous, it's been ridiculous for quite some time.

I have seen many bomb-and-bail threads started over the years.  I've posted possible solutions in several of them, the most simple of which is removing the ability to bail from an undamaged plane (not difficult to code, and not terribly impactive on normal game play).

Interestingly, Semp went to great lengths to defend bomb-and-bailing in those threads as well.  I don't know why he gets such a kick out of it.

For the reasons Wiley explained above, the bomb-and-bailers seem more common and impactive during off-peak game play (my typical play hours).  In fact, I was encountering it so often that it was one of the reasons I unsubbed from the game for 6 months last year.  Now I generally don't bother bomber hunting any more during off-peak, knowing they will just bail and look for an unmolested milk-run elsewhere.

After seeing HTC ignore the issue for so many years, I've come to the conclusion they simply don't care about bomb-and-bailing.  Sadly this has only encouraged it to become the normal MO for many bomber pilots.

Here's the thread I was thinking of, which I started after a string of threads complaining about bomb and bail:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=354697.0

<S>

Ryno

[Zoney]

If you no longer chase bombers because there are too many incidences of them bombing before you can get the first shot off, then they win.

Of course I do not like it at all myself.  I film ever single flight, always, so I just go back and find out who it is.  I see the same half a dozen guys doing it every single encounter without exception.  I have never called them out in public or private and never will because even that negative attention will feed them.  Just like this thread feeds them.  They see that they upset people and quite obviously, that is what they want.

So, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.  Penalizing bomb and bailers has unintended consequences on those that "play fair", and talking about it only feeds them.

[bustr]

The M3 resupply phenomenon is one of the most passive, aggressive, irritating things in this game Hitech has given players to screw other players with. Sadly it's not like the player driving the M3 is cleaning your clock with uber ACM to squash your pride. At least there is some solace in being beaten by a better pilot. The M3 can be killed by a Brewster or another M3's 50cal. But, it's that feeling of realizing you just furballed your base away while some dork in an M3 took it out from under you when you could have destroyed it with a few rounds. Or that weeny who couldn't hold a candle to your uber ACM skills, just kept toodling 2000ft under you to keep his town ack up that ultimately stuck your nose in the dirt and held off the base capture. Now that was an M3 thumbing it's nose at your skillz.

Hitech gave many types of personality a way to define fighting in this combat simulator. Even the ability to runaway by bailing. I'm surprised you guys haven't started filming all of your sorties and begun personal shaming here in the forums. What next, you want magic tethers to lock players together at 6k until one or both are destroyed? Like those paranormal stories where you walk through a door back into the room you were just in.

That might make an interesting Claw grudge match kind of plaything mini arena for a Con. Fly around until you find someone, a 6k sphere appears around you two, and you can pop out to an instant random re-entry to shoot at each other until one is dead. No other players would be allowed into your fight.....picking and HOing would take on a whole new dimension. A whole arena full of spheres with Claws popping in and out. At least runners could try and avoid you by popping out for all of the fight. You could just sit there and rotate your Claw to say hello as they passed through. I can see the forum whines if they bailed to get away from you.

I guess one of you would want Hitech to horse whip them because they didn't spend enough time in the sphere flying the way you wanted to fight. Along with horse whipping them for bailing and not letting you kill them.

Can you imagine what things would be like if Hitech horse whipped everyone you guys complained about for not playing the game the way you want them to.......

[Wiley]

Can you imagine what things would be like if Hitech horse whipped everyone you guys complained about for not playing the game the way you want them to.......

You S T I L L haven't explained how giving the proxy and perks to the closest plane within render range is horse whipping them.

Can't change the behavior, may as well give the other pilot the points.

Wiley.

[guncrasher]

I dont defend bomb and bailing.  I am pointing out that it is really pointless to try to give solutions to something that isnt really a problem once you realize that there is no solution.

for example how can you stop somebody from bailing from an undamaged bomber.  all he has to do is turn really fast and the drones are gone poof.  then point your nose down and you will damage your bomber and still get the perkies.

so now your solution would be to limit the turning of a bomber which will affect those who know how to turn a bomber right on the edge when you dont lose drones.  and if you change the code so bombers cant point the nose down and damage the airplane now will begin a new set of threads about how can bombers dive bomb from 20k while taking no damage.


semp

[Ack-Ack]

and yet how many did you shoot down who didnt bail?



semp

It doesn't matter how many bombers I've shot down, it doesn't change the fact that players bailing from bombers to avoid being shot down has been increasing, or at the least, more common place that it previously was.  Just because you've decided to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean this hasn't become a problem.

ack-ack

[guncrasher]

It doesn't matter how many bombers I've shot down, it doesn't change the fact that players bailing from bombers to avoid being shot down has been increasing, or at the least, more common place that it previously was.  Just because you've decided to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean this hasn't become a problem.

ack-ack

and how do you propose to "fix" it?  I dont have my head in the sand, you guys do.  you guys think that hitech can actually change how people play just by changing the code.  you fail to see that most of the solutions offered will actually affect those who do want to play rather than punish those who bail.


semp

[The Fugitive]

and how do you propose to "fix" it?  I dont have my head in the sand, you guys do.  you guys think that hitech can actually change how people play just by changing the code.  you fail to see that most of the solutions offered will actually affect those who do want to play rather than punish those who bail.


semp

I get the impression that Hitech is far smarter than us and I have the utmost confidence that he COULD come up with a solution should he want to.

There is a problem, and a number of people have asked for some type of solution. By you saying there isn't a problem and avoiding the issue doesn't help solve the problem, nor does it help with a solution either.

Some people have given what they think is a solution to the problem at hand. You have no reason to speak against any of them as it isn't up to you. Unless of course Hitech has asked you to run interference on these suggestions posted on the boards.

so in a recap,
Is there a problem? Many people believe so.
Is there a solution? Of course!
Is any of the above suggestions THE solution? Probably not.

Sticking your head in the sand and saying there isn't a problem doesn't help.

[guncrasher]

fugitive you are wrong.  some of those "solutions" do affect me.  for example stopping people from bailing out from undamaged bombers.  you know how many times I have bailed because either the base was taken and I have no interest in going to the next or to join another mission?   if you stop me from bailing then all I have to do is point the bomber nose straight down 20 seconds later I am gone.

other solutions like giving "kills and perkies" just by being within icon range are funny as hell.  you dont get perks for proxies right now, you really think it would be a good change?  right now you dont get perkies for damaging an airplane unless you actually get the kill.  so why should you get perkies for proxies and not for helping bring a plane down?

semp

[kvuo75]

fugitive you are wrong.  some of those "solutions" do affect me.  for example stopping people from bailing out from undamaged bombers.  you know how many times I have bailed because either the base was taken and I have no interest in going to the next or to join another mission?   if you stop me from bailing then all I have to do is point the bomber nose straight down 20 seconds later I am gone.

other solutions like giving "kills and perkies" just by being within icon range are funny as hell.  you dont get perks for proxies right now, you really think it would be a good change?  right now you dont get perkies for damaging an airplane unless you actually get the kill.  so why should you get perkies for proxies and not for helping bring a plane down?

semp

dont give perks.. give the kill credit. the game already awards kills for being close.. all I'd suggest is increase the range  substantially.. outside of icon range at the least.


what possible reason could you have against just simply increasing the proxy range?

[Kingpin]

I dont defend bomb and bailing.

Yes, you vehemently defend the ability to bomb and bail.  You've done so in nearly every thread I've read about the topic.

You've now made it clear why, because YOU like to be able to bail out of undamaged aircraft as you stated above.  This isn't about what is good for the community.  It's about what is good for you.  You have a vested interest in arguing that there isn't a problem and that it can't be fixed, because you don't want it fixed.

That's all I needed to know.  Thanks.

My opinion on the other hand is based on these things:

1) I believe a combat game should promote combat, not allow exploits to avoid it.
2) I don't think you should be able to bail from an undamaged plane for any reason (you chose where to take off from.  If you didn't consider an alternate target, go land).
3) I believe there are ways to limit bailing, and that includes your suggested method of "crashing/destroying" your plane instead (such as a bailing airspeed limitation).