LA-7s

[RedAgony]

Okay, before I go crazy, can someone PLEASE give me some tips on flying against LA-7s?  When I'm in 190s it seems like there is NO way to rope them...  they'll just float up at 0mph and shoot you.  If you try and scissor, they'll never overshoot and you just give them multiple snapshots with their cannons.


What is a true weakness of the Lavochkin? 

[Skyyr]

PM sent.

[Wiley]

What is a true weakness of the Lavochkin?

The pilot.  Or the Bore and Zoom as described above.

Wiley.

[Skyyr]

The pilot.

There are some scenarios you cannot win, given the plane selections and pilots of equal skill. Even the best pilots cannot make their planes perform what they are not capable of doing. That is why ACM exists, as rules to prevent pilots from committing into fights their aircraft literally cannot handle against a competent opponent. Relying on "the pilot" is the antithesis of what ACM is about.

However important they might be, "the pilot" should always be the last consideration in a dogfight, never the first. Doing otherwise shows a presumption of one's own skill and an underestimation of the opponent's skill, both of which are classically proven time and time again to be fatal mistakes.

[glzsqd]

Very capable aircraft under 10k, but once above it starts to lose its performance advantage to the 190D(and possibly the A series) significantly.

Also, An La7 will never be able keep its nose up for a shot at 0mph, its impossible. Your probably misjudging their E-state and pulling them up even though they have enough zoom to bring you into gun range. When attempting to rope an opponent you need to make sure the either A) you have enough speed to Stay out of their guns as you pull them up or B) Come up in a Light but smooth spiral which forces them to bleed more E lining up a shot while nose up. If you don't mind being bored to death, you should watch some of Skyyrs MA sorties that he posts on his youtube channel. He's very good at Roping opponents up and coming back down on them just as they stall.

The LA7 can scissor real well, especially in the hands of a good stick. Its roll is good and it has a pair of damn good flaps that let it stall fight almost as well as the 109K4. I'd recommend(and others should correct me if I'm wrong) to put an LA7 into a Flat scissor at higher speeds. The LA7s flaps don't deploy until about 200IAS I think, so it really can't slam on the breaks like it can at lower speeds. Makes sure you have Altitude to work with and if you end up picking up an LA7 try to get your speed up to  around 400 or better and Scissor hard, remember to pitch the nose down slighting when crossing back in-front of him to deny him a cross shot.


Please feel free to shoot down my post anyone esle

[Wiley]

There are some scenarios you cannot win, given the plane selections and pilots of equal skill. Even the best pilots cannot make their planes perform what they are not capable of doing. That is why ACM exists, as rules to prevent pilots from committing into fights their aircraft literally cannot handle against a competent opponent. Relying on "the pilot" is the antithesis of what ACM is about.

However important they might be, "the pilot" should always be the last consideration in a dogfight, never the first. Doing otherwise shows a presumption of one's own skill and an underestimation of the opponent's skill, both of which are classically proven time and time again to be fatal mistakes.

Co-E, as described in your redacted post, it's either die or Bore and Zoom.  You're dead against an equal pilot.  It's that simple.  He asked what the LA's weakness was.  In that scenario, that's the only one.  There is nothing in the plane's performance to exploit.

Wiley.

[Skyyr]

Co-E, as described in your redacted post, it's either die or Bore and Zoom.  You're dead against an equal pilot.  It's that simple.  He asked what the LA's weakness was.  In that scenario, that's the only one.  There is nothing in the plane's performance to exploit.

Wiley.

I don't disagree, I was simply clarifying that even pilot skill isn't enough in the scenario, given pilots of the same skill level. I just wanted to set expectations; all too often "skill" gets thrown around (in general, not by you necessarily) without realizing skill can only affect so much.

It is worth noting there are some defensive tactics that can be used on the D9's end of things, but that's more minutia and outside the scope of the original question.

[Oldman731]

It is worth noting there are some defensive tactics that can be used on the D9's end of things

That's the Dora.  The OP was talking about 190s in general (at least, that's what I thought).  What hope does an A5 or an A8 or - heaven help us - an F8 have against an La7?

- oldman

[MrKrabs]

That's the Dora.  The OP was talking about 190s in general (at least, that's what I thought).  What hope does an A5 or an A8 or - heaven help us - an F8 have against an La7?

- oldman

People underestimate the F-8

[JunkyII]

That's the Dora.  The OP was talking about 190s in general (at least, that's what I thought).  What hope does an A5 or an A8 or - heaven help us - an F8 have against an La7?

- oldman

It has a huge advantage in dive performance...might force the overshoot there until you can extend to help...

[bozon]

Ahh yes, the LA7 - world's first prop driven jet.

In typical MA fights it simply does not have any real disadvantages to exploit. Luckily LA7 are usually flown by very poor pilots, and being Russian, it is not too popular. You simply cannot beat the plane, so you'd have to beat the pilot instead.

[Randy1]

One point I can make is don't let a plane like an La7 get you so pessimistic that any La7 owns you.  I got that way on 190s a while back.    Now the 190 is no big deal.


In the P-38, I know if I can get on La7 on defense by using SA then starting with a good position, I have a good chance of a kill on the average(not the better) La7 player.  Like a P51 the La7's speed can be used against them.

One last but a really good training point.  Use the La7 for a week.  Learn the plane and you learn how to kill it.

[Scca]

One last but a really good training point.  Use the La7 for a week.  Learn the plane and you learn how to kill it.

This...

[DmonSlyr]

Alright you better read this!!

La7s are very aggressive birds, you always see them at low alts typically base defending trying to hop on everyones 6 as quickly as possible. This is much of an advantage as it is a weakness for an la7. What does hopping on everyone's 6 as quickly as possible mean? It is easy to pick. The La7s biggest weakness is that it is easy to pick. Much like the F4U. You get all caught up trying to kill the guy in front of you and then you either get jumped by higher con's or some plane is zooming on the deck looking for slow planes to prance on after a fight. The La7s are always chasing something. Hop on their 6 from high alts and pick him as he is trying to shoot your friendly. Its dirty but I don't make the rules.

Let's look at the aircrafts weaknesses.

1. Does not get a lot of gas.
This means it won't be at very high alts, it won't fly far to bases, and it will generally be used as a base defender (when I typically use it). This means 85% of the time you will see an LA7 when you are attacking a base only. This is good for you!

2. If you fly 190s a lot this means your torque goes the left where as a the torque for an La7 goes to the right! This is good for you! Next time you think you can pull off a rope, spiral climb to the left. You may have a chance to win the rope as the la7 will be battleing itself and losing a lot of E.

3. The La7s best characteristic is speeding around on the deck.
     So how do you beat a plane or stay away from a plane that mostly flies on the deck? You stay high!! When you are approaching a base, come in it at 15k. There will not be any La7s this high (normally) you have all the advantage. When you dive on a la7, if you overshoot pull up and emmilman to the left. Don't get stuck fighting planes on the deck, this is how you get caught by La7s. There are 2 ways to kill La7s, 1. pick them while they are chasing someone, or BnZ them not giving up your E, always pull up and go left on the loop over. 2 fly a plane that our turns it, such as the N1K2, spit, Ki84, F4U, and so on. This method would be a lot harder if you are new to the stall fighting game. The La7 can turn quite well but not incredibly well so you really gotta practice the stall fighting game and you can out turn most LA pilots in planes that can actually turn better.

You really have to judge the LA7 you are fighting. How aggressive are they? How much alt do they have? What is their speed and E state? What is your speed and E state? Can you get away from planes on the deck? Why are you on the deck while you are attacking a base? Never get below 5K stall fighting a plane. If you fly 190s you have yo stay fast above 400 if you are below 5K.
 These are keys to stay away from the LA7 and to fight it with your advantage of alt, picking it, and if you are in a turn fighting plane, useing your E and turn skills to out manauver the LA7. Other than that, if you lose alt advanatage and have an La7 zooming on your 6 your only chance is the barrel roll defense, which is complicated and advanced so I won't explain right now. You just simply cannot be low against an La7 and you have to use BnZ and left spiral climb during the rope to be successful against La7s.

[glzsqd]

PM sent.

That's a shame. Seeing as you fly both air frames almost exclusively, your opinion would be a healthy contribution to this thread.