Ground gun damage model

[Tilt]

It seems I can fire a single 20mm shell anywhere in close proximity to an 88/5lber/twin 37 and totally destroy the gun.

Can we hone up the damage model a bit? so that it is as accurate as that found for guns on air craft and vehicles?

Can we add a gunner object that can be disabled? such that for auto guns they are out for 30 seconds whilst the gunner object "repairs" such that the gun is only out for the normal down time if it has actually received direct damage? Such that a manned gun can have its player returned to tower but still be subsequently manned if it has not received a direct hit?

[Mister Fork]

20mm aircraft shells in Aces High are actually HE are they not? Kind of like having mini-grenades go off all around it...twenty or thirty rounds exploding next to any AAA position should knock it out. It would be like raining small hot metal fragments all around the battery - hitting everything in proximity including ammo. 

Now the idea of a 30 second delay to change a simulated crew injury - that is interesting...

[icepac]

The soft tissue within the gun emplacement is pretty..........soft.

[Swoop]

20mm aircraft shells in Aces High are actually HE are they not? Kind of like having mini-grenades go off all around it...twenty or thirty rounds exploding next to any AAA position should knock it out. It would be like raining small hot metal fragments all around the battery - hitting everything in proximity including ammo. 

Now the idea of a 30 second delay to change a simulated crew injury - that is interesting...

depends on the plane that fired the round.  LW cannons are generally HE.  Hispanos are generally AP.

[Volron]

Any service personnel will tell you that the uniform you are issued, makes for VERY crappy armor.

As Mister Fork points out, the idea of a 30 second delay to simulate a change of crew members injured could be interesting.  I think 30 seconds is heavy handed though.  15 seconds sounds a little more plausible.   The problem I see with this though is, "Well what about a bomber's tail gunner being swapped with a waist gunner?  If manned guns can "change", why can't bombers?", type of argument being made.

I think the idea is more along the lines of the ammo boxes around the gun detonating, which takes out the gun.

[waystin2]

-1  I think the ground gun situation is fine.  The manned guns always have and always should be a second tier choice to actually upping an airplane or rolling a GV.

[Karnak]

depends on the plane that fired the round.  LW cannons are generally HE.  Hispanos are generally AP.

All air-to-air 20mm cannons were HE, Hispanos included.

[guncrasher]

All air-to-air 20mm cannons were HE, Hispanos included.

actually we dont use the word hispanos anymore, but you are right the latin-american cannons were HE.


semp

[bustr]

All air-to-air 20mm cannons were HE, Hispanos included.

http://quarryhs.co.uk/RAF%20guns.htm

Work was also needed to the ammunition, as it was found that the fuze of the standard explosive shells was too sensitive, causing them to burst on the aircraft skin rather than within the structure where they would do most damage, and plain steel practice shells often proved more effective. By 1941 both a delayed-action fuze and an explosive with added incendiary filling had been developed, but the practice rounds remained in use alongside the HEIs until they were replaced by a new semi-armour piercing round (SAPI) which was essentially an HE shell filled with an incendiary compound and capped with a hard steel tip instead of a fuze. From 1942 on, the standard Hispano loading became 50% HEI, 50% SAPI.

[icepac]

Aren't there real life instances of guys rushing a gun emplacment and taking it out with a pistol.

You can do that in aces high.............but......the rounds have to hit the gun or land inside the emplacement while the cannons only need to land nearby.

I have an issue with this since many fighter pilots survived cannon shells exploding inside the cockpit of thier plane yet we have gun emplacements that can be taken out by a single 20mm round exploding on the ground outside the emplacement that has a raised perimeter designed exactly for purpose of protecting what is inside.

I feel that, if you want a gun emplacement destroyed, you need to hit inside it or hit near it with something far more powerful than one or two 20mm rounds.

[pembquist]

I dunno, I appreciate the idea of realism but as it is I feel like the ack is a pretty good balance of easy to take out/mess u up.

[Scca]

actually we dont use the word hispanos anymore, but you are right the latin-american cannons were HE.


semp

[earl1937]

It seems I can fire a single 20mm shell anywhere in close proximity to an 88/5lber/twin 37 and totally destroy the gun.

Can we hone up the damage model a bit? so that it is as accurate as that found for guns on air craft and vehicles?

Can we add a gunner object that can be disabled? such that for auto guns they are out for 30 seconds whilst the gunner object "repairs" such that the gun is only out for the normal down time if it has actually received direct damage? Such that a manned gun can have its player returned to tower but still be subsequently manned if it has not received a direct hit?

Not sure what would be evolved, but I have never understood why a dead tail gunner in a bomber not be replaced with another crew member. By the same token, when a A/C is pilot wounded, what's wrong with co-pilot taking over, as in real life. I realize this is just a game and only one player allowed at a time in the bomber, except for a "joiner" gunner, but it would be more interesting I think to be able to inter-change the gun positions!

[bustr]

Earl,

Internet games are not as much about realism but, about perceived fairness by the person who feels the game is not being fair to him. One of the reasons I suspect Hitech has not implemented every little thing that passes through this forum.

Now I'm really confused. For 12 years I've been aiming at the gun inside of the 20ft ring thinking that was the only way to destroy it. Wow.... I can get sloppy and get fewer radiator hits and save ammo for vulching and picking.

[Randy1]

The hardness is fine with me.   

I would like to see the firepower increased.  I can do ok in the 88 but the other maned guns need more firepower.  Maybe a better assortment of anti aircraft guns would be interesting like a 4 fifty on the M16.