6K to 8K

[earl1937]

  I think a good case can be made to increase the icon range from 6K to 8K. there are a good number of older guys like myself now playing this game, many of whom have failing eye sight and it would enhance the game for not only us, but for everyone to increase the icon range.
Case in point: was boring a hole in the sky on the way to bomb a base, had just looked around, as was my usual to see if anything around. DAR showing in the sector I am in, about a 1 aircraft DAR, so I knew someone else besides me was in this sector.
I had just returned to the cockpit view when I saw tracers running by the aircraft, jumped to #4 and a 51D was 200 yds behind me, chewing me apart.
When a ponie or duce is 7K above the bomber and they dive in at high speed, you can be in the #4 position and still not see them until they are on top of you!
Another example is the closing speed of aircraft in this game! Get one of your buddies to go in front of you and both close at one another at 300MPH and see how quick you are on top of one another!

[MrKrabs]

-1
Next thing would be having your enemy be able to give you a check 6...

This is why you constantly look around, even with handicaps you still need to look around...

[Saxman]

-1
Next thing would be having your enemy be able to give you a check 6...

This is why you constantly look around, even with handicaps you still need to look around...

At a range of 8000 yards a B-17 has an apparent size of 14.8 arc minutes. That's about 1/2 the apparent size of the full moon.

So yes, I'd say a case can be made that for some aircraft (IE the 4-engine bombers) the icon range SHOULD be increased. Remember that icons compensate for the poor resolution and lack of depth of field inherent in most computer monitors. IRL a B-17 would be clearly able to be differentiated from a B-24, Liberator, and even a B-29 at 8000 yards.

[earl1937]

At a range of 8000 yards a B-17 has an apparent size of 14.8 arc minutes. That's about 1/2 the apparent size of the full moon.

So yes, I'd say a case can be made that for some aircraft (IE the 4-engine bombers) the icon range SHOULD be increased. Remember that icons compensate for the poor resolution and lack of depth of field inherent in most computer monitors. IRL a B-17 would be clearly able to be differentiated from a B-24, Liberator, and even a B-29 at 8000 yards.

You lost me with your reply!! Are you saying that by changing the range that you can see an icon from 6 to 8K would make the size of the aircraft to big?
All I am saying is that it would improve the game for a lot of people by changing the distance by which you can see another icon from 6 to 8K!
I think it would give both players more time to plan an attack, and I am sure that it would change how merge's occurred between two fighters! I just think it would make it more interesting for everyone!

[Saxman]

You lost me with your reply!! Are you saying that by changing the range that you can see an icon from 6 to 8K would make the size of the aircraft to big?
All I am saying is that it would improve the game for a lot of people by changing the distance by which you can see another icon from 6 to 8K!
I think it would give both players more time to plan an attack, and I am sure that it would change how merge's occurred between two fighters! I just think it would make it more interesting for everyone!

What I'm saying is that a B-17 would be identifiable AS a B-17 at 8000 yards, justifying the increased icon range.

Let's say this is the diameter of the moon in AH (assuming its OWN apparent size of 30 arc-minutes is correctly rendered in-game):

[---------]

At 6000 yards the B-17 would have a wingspan like this:

[------]

At 8000 yards:

[----]

It's not until you get to probably around 10,000 yards that you'd be too far away to differentiate type IRL.

[hitech]

Let's say this is the diameter of the moon in AH (assuming its OWN apparent size of 30 arc-minutes is correctly rendered in-game):

This is an incorrect assumption.


Moon is 30 arc minutes i.e 1/2 deg in real life in AH it is much much much larger.

In AH with default field of view b17 would be 5-6 pixels at 8k on a 1920 monitor.

HiTech

[bustr]

At (8k)7315m a B17 31.6m wingspan comes out to 4Mil at 2pixel = 1Mil. 8pixels
At (6k)5489m a B17 31.6m wingspan comes out to 5Mil....................... 10pixels

Pixels at farther distances become self limiting to how small you can really show something clearly. You quickly use them up on a PC monitor creating the illusion of a tiny to scale speck at a far distance in an illusion of a 3D world. I'm not sure if you can make only a half pixel light up or influence it to be brighter on one side and less bright on the other. That would help the illusion of far distant speck scale. But, not Earl's eyes.

Maybe the icon can first show at 8k as only a red tiny square of 8x8 growing with the con becoming our current icon at 6k for Earl's medical eye condition. Or that may bog down everyone's PC in the area processing the extra effects.

[ImADot]

Icon range has nothing to do with render range. It is no more taxing on a system to have 12k icons as it would be to have 2k icons.

In FSO for instance, icon range is 3k. I can see the plane's dot before I can see the icon. Others in my squad can see dots long before me, just because they play at a lower resolution than I do, and the pixels on the monitor are larger than mine.

[Saxman]

This is an incorrect assumption.


Moon is 30 arc minutes i.e 1/2 deg in real life in AH it is much much much larger.

In AH with default field of view b17 would be 5-6 pixels at 8k on a 1920 monitor.

HiTech

Yes, I know the moon is too big in-game (really hope that gets fixed in the new terrain system and its apparent size is corrected, so 10-12px on a 1920 monitor at the default FoV extrapolating from the apparent wingspan of the 17 at 8000yds).

My point was that at 8000 yards IRL it would be completely possible to visually ID a B-17 (especially if you had a fighter pilot's visual acuity). So if the icons are meant to compensate for the hardware limitations of the monitor and simulate actual human visual acuity (as I know has been posted several times in various "Shorten Icon Range" threads) then we SHOULD have icon on a B-17 at 8000 yards as requested in the OP.

Now smaller aircraft like single-engine fighters? Yes, THOSE would have shorter icon ranges.

In fact I'd love it if icon ranges could be dynamic; single-engine fighters have shorter con ranges than the 4-engine bombers. Aircraft silhouetted against the sky would have longer icon ranges than aircraft viewed against the ground. Weather conditions (CAVU vs. overcast, flying through clouds, etc.) would also affect con range and visibility.

[bustr]

We are really talking about Earl's and some other older players eyes. Not what your squad mates can see.

Earl, the real wish should be:

Dear Hitech,

 I know at my age I'm having eye issues but love playing your game. I'm sure you have other players in my boat. Is it possible to extend the enemy icon visible range to 8k for aircraft to help us continue enjoying your game?

Otherwise Earl, someone like ImAdot will turn your wish into a whizzing match on how good he and his guys eyes are. Obfuscating the real issue of your post.

[ImADot]

Otherwise Earl, someone like ImAdot will turn your wish into a whizzing match on how good he and his guys eyes are. Obfuscating the real issue of your post.

That's a bit of a cheap shot at me, and completely off base as to the reason for my post. I will choose to ignore this thread from here on in.

[bustr]

This post was about Earl's eyes.

[Saxman]

This post was about Earl's eyes.

I was just giving it justification on other grounds.

[Oldman731]

This post was about Earl's eyes.

Yes it was.

Odd how it somehow turned to ImaDot.

- oldman

[earl1937]

This post was about Earl's eyes.

Appreciate all the comments but what I am more concerned about than anything is the approach speed of some of these fighters, i.e., Yak's, La,La!
If you blink an eye, I have only one, at 6K now, they are by you in another blink. I have been in pilots position and had a check 6 call from someone and time I get in #4 position, the guys is already chewing my tail off.
All I am suggesting is move the icon out another 2k to give everyone a better chance to see the incoming con. Right now the fast moving fighter has an advantage over the older guys like me who are in buffs. sniff, sniff, sugh, sugh!!!