KI-84 vs P-38J

[PR3D4TOR]

The 38 is not faster below 8k, but it can hang on to its speed for longer with its 5 minute WEP. Below 8k the Frank is the better ride, and the closer to the ground the fight gets the bigger advantage to the Frank. As for turning the Frank has two thirds the turning circle of the 38 with or without flaps, so don't turn with him at all. If at all possible keep the fight above 8k and keep it fast and vertical. Use his torque against him in a rope if he lets you.

[Mister Fork]

I would strongly recommend against roping a Ki-84 as it has a lower stall speed and has much better excellent acceleration than the P-38. For example, if you both enter a climb - even with a 30-40 mph advantage, the Ki-84 will catch you as you stall out in your rope of a P-38 as the Ki has amazing energy building capabilities. Especially if he turns on WEP half-way into the climb.  And if your rope doesn't work and you try to disengage, for the first 1000 or so yards before the P-38 can use its small speed advantage, it will out-accelerate your fat 38 butt and kill you before you have a chance to build speed.

IMHO - unless you can dive-bomb on an unexpecting Ki-84 pilot with 5-10k advantage and cherry pick, leave him alone.  Otherwise it'll be a very short fight.  And I speak on this personally for having flown the Ki-84 for years as my go-to for patrolling. Been jumped by almost everything and won most of the time...unless your Lazerr in his dang mouse-driven 38 fork-tailed devil.

[JunkyII]

KI84 should win everytime...like Triton said. 38 has to make mistake.

[ink]

I would strongly recommend against roping a Ki-84 as it has a lower stall speed and has much better excellent acceleration than the P-38. For example, if you both enter a climb - even with a 30-40 mph advantage, the Ki-84 will catch you as you stall out in your rope of a P-38 as the Ki has amazing energy building capabilities. Especially if he turns on WEP half-way into the climb.  And if your rope doesn't work and you try to disengage, for the first 1000 or so yards before the P-38 can use its small speed advantage, it will out-accelerate your fat 38 butt and kill you before you have a chance to build speed.

IMHO - unless you can dive-bomb on an unexpecting Ki-84 pilot with 5-10k advantage and cherry pick, leave him alone.  Otherwise it'll be a very short fight.  And I speak on this personally for having flown the Ki-84 for years as my go-to for patrolling. Been jumped by almost everything and won most of the time...unless your Lazerr in his dang mouse-driven 38 fork-tailed devil.

even Lazer or ACKACK or Twintail....any of the great 38 drivers...

like Junky said...even E and ALT the Ki wins every time....(well I added even E and ALT)

the only thing the 38 can really do is shoot from 1000 out and get that shot...

yes some guys really know the 38 and make for a great fight and may even win once in a while against my Ki...

but most often the 38 that tries to fight is dead in a very short time.


now if you get a guy who knows the 38 and knows E and angles..and has an ALT advantage...the 38 is more then capable of killing even a very well flown KI.


I have met some very good 38 drivers that are just awesome at making that bird dance....to me that is much more impressive to see.... than a 16 or LA or even a KI84 Dance.

[katanaso]

Provided the fight is at a decent altitude, some tips versus a Ki84:

Be careful to avoid getting into a slower nose-down knife fight.

Use speed against it - the Ki handles worse at higher speeds, and the 38 can create reversals since it can get to flaps at 250mph.

Work at getting on top of the fight.  The Ki can match the 38's climb, but force it to climb in a turn against it's torque.  Regardless, be careful of the guns - they're excellent. 

Force the Ki to fight in a spot where the 38 handles slightly better.

If the fight is on the deck, it's very hard.  Even a relatively new player can outturn the 38 when the 38 doesn't have the vertical to use.

The biggest mistake I see people make is getting too slow, and the Ki shines as soon as the fight gets into the 150-180mph range (where you see a lot of 38s trying to fight it.)




 

[ink]

Provided the fight is at a decent altitude, some tips versus a Ki84:

Be careful to avoid getting into a slower nose-down knife fight.

Use speed against it - the Ki handles worse at higher speeds, and the 38 can create reversals since it can get to flaps at 250mph.

Work at getting on top of the fight.  The Ki can match the 38's climb, but force it to climb in a turn against it's torque.  Regardless, be careful of the guns - they're excellent. 

Force the Ki to fight in a spot where the 38 handles slightly better.

If the fight is on the deck, it's very hard.  Even a relatively new player can outturn the 38 when the 38 doesn't have the vertical to use.

The biggest mistake I see people make is getting too slow, and the Ki shines as soon as the fight gets into the 150-180mph range (where you see a lot of 38s trying to fight it.)

you have to get the KI into the speed range of 450 + before the tightening up of the controls will be an advantage to the 38...

[katanaso]

you have to get the KI into the speed range of 450 + before the tightening up of the controls will be an advantage to the 38...

Not that.  The 38 handles like crap at those speeds too.  Higher speeds, and turning near the 6g blackout, where the 38 can dump speed in a manner that the Ki cannot.  It's a matter of using that tool against the planes that retain E very well.

[ink]

Not that.  The 38 handles like crap at those speeds too.  Higher speeds, and turning near the 6g blackout, where the 38 can dump speed in a manner that the Ki cannot.  It's a matter of using that tool against the planes that retain E very well.

its just an unfair fight for the 38...

even sticks even aspects....the 38 will lose every time.


yes she can get skinny but she is just too damn big and unresponsive (comparatively to the Ki) to really put up and fight at typical MA ALTS...

she needs some ALT/E on the KI to be really competitive against it.

Ki84 is definitely one of the best actual fighters in AH....

the one thing she does not have is running away speed.....but who needs that when I am here to fight



a good KI stick will be most often be de-throttled as soon as the nose goes lo...

I always found she dumps speed and gains it back very well.

[Mongoose]

   This type of mismatch was why wingman tactics were used in the first place. 

[Oldman731]

   This type of mismatch was why wingman tactics were used in the first place.

Good point.

We really see it in the early war era, typically in AvA, matching F4Fs and/or P40s against Zekes.  One on one, there's no contest, which forces the US player to adopt cooperative tactics, and then things change.  Just like The Real Thing.

- oldman

[bozon]

If the KI84 is so awesome, how come they drop like flies in the MA?

Specifically agaimt the 38, it is a bad match for the 38 since it cannot exploit the glaring weaknesses of the 84 like other planes can.

[JunkyII]

Pilot ability...not plane.

If the KI84 is so awesome, how come they drop like flies in the MA?

Specifically agaimt the 38, it is a bad match for the 38 since it cannot exploit the glaring weaknesses of the 84 like other planes can.

[ink]

If the KI84 is so awesome, how come they drop like flies in the MA?

Specifically agaimt the 38, it is a bad match for the 38 since it cannot exploit the glaring weaknesses of the 84 like other planes can.

I would put money the average KI kills the average 38 much more often


where is lusche

[PR3D4TOR]

Amazing this hasn't turned into a Spit vs 109 hijack yet. 

[Debrody]

Ki 84 would win in any situation i can imagine, unless the pilot has no idea about how to fly a fighter.