Asleep At the wheel?

[Wmaker]

What else are we going to talk about, the price of tea in China?

It may not have dawned to you but the discussion can very well be based on the facts that are available instead of accusations without facts. Imagine that!

Get out of here.

Check the date I joined the BBS. Don't worry, I'm not going any where.

[mbailey]

How would you feel if something similar (lets imagine that you are a truck driver and were involved in an accident where people got killed) happened to you or to your relatives and some "casual commenter" in the Internet would think "well it most certainly must be that idiot truck driver's fault" without really knowing any facts about the incident at all?

How would you feel, huh?


Internet hasn't been the same as two people talking privately with each other for a while now.

Yep, I know World and Internet is full of thoughtless morons (not necessarily referring to this thread in particular with the former comment as this isn't exactly the worse I've seen). And regardless if it bothers me or not I can say my thoughts on the matter just as anyone else on this BBS.

As for you mbailey, you didn't get it the last time and I have zero expectations of you getting it this time either.

Well if we were discussing it in a manner that your example shows....with the same disrespectful inflection then yes I would agree with you. Personally I'm not thrilled with the title of this thread, nor accusations being thrown out that he was asleep. Re-read what I wrote.  If you notice in my posts I stated that the NTSB would figure it out, and that given the distance the train had traveled (a route that I have driven hundreds of times and a train that I have taken to NY dozens of times) I was trying to dispel what I to saw as a bit disrespectful and what I believed was wrong. Part of what my profession entails is origin and causation into disasters that affect residential and commercial structures....I discuss things similar to this for a living.

That said having a mature discussion about a major event that occured in no way shows disrespect to those involved. It's human nature to question what went wrong, and to some seeing a feat of engineering fail begs us to question why. The difference is in how the discussion progresses. If it turns accusatory then yes I'm out, or will try to put the breaks on someone being a numpty. I "got it" just fine in the last thread, but I digress...I see you didn't take my advice from the last discussion to be involved in a few grown up discussions to figure out how they work.

[Oldman731]

Engineer is cooperating:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20150515_Lawyer__Engineer_does_not_recall_crash.html

I don't think I would have recommended that.

- oldman

[earl1937]

Engineer is cooperating:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20150515_Lawyer__Engineer_does_not_recall_crash.html

I don't think I would have recommended that.

- oldman

One of the things which puzzles me now is this: from the station of departure to wreck is only five miles, and now I learn there is a 70MPH speed limit on three miles of the track, prior to entering the 50MPH speed limit curve, so now I have to wonder: He must have been awake or mentally handicapped by drugs or something, because I am sure he was aware of the 70MPH speed limit on the tracks prior to entering that curve. There has to be something we are not aware of yet, because this makes no sense if he was properly trained!
I read that there Are sections of Am Track which have automatic speed reduction placed on the train, no matter what the engineer does! If that is true, then why not something like on tracks prior to entering that dangous curve?"

[Volron]

I read that there Are sections of Am Track which have automatic speed reduction placed on the train, no matter what the engineer does! If that is true, then why not something like on tracks prior to entering that dangous curve?"

Money.

[Meatwad]

Some locomotives give an audible alarm every so many minutes and you have so many seconds to push a large button to show you are alert, otherwise it throws the entire train into emergency stop

[Oldman731]

I read that there Are sections of Am Track which have automatic speed reduction placed on the train, no matter what the engineer does! If that is true, then why not something like on tracks prior to entering that dangous curve?"

And as if on cue:

"If Amtrak Train 188 had been heading to Philadelphia from New York, it would not have derailed at the sharp Frankford Junction curve, because an automatic braking mechanism has been in place for years on the southbound side of the tracks to stop a speeding train."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20150515_Amtrak_failed_to_install_train-speed_control_at_dangerous_Frankford_curve.html#f5ieHgJfWLP19W3h.99

- oldman

[mbailey]

.

[mbailey]

Money.

Yep.... Which is a real crime given the history of this curve, with a train wreck that killed 79 people years ago. It is in effect heading in towards 30th St station heading south from NY, but not out of the station heading north towards the curve. My thoughts why it's installed headed south would be due to the shear volume of rail traffic headed into the station and rail yard. I e also read it's installed heading north in from Washington DC into 30th St, but not south from 30th St outbound to Washington

[Mister Fork]

And as if on cue:

"If Amtrak Train 188 had been heading to Philadelphia from New York, it would not have derailed at the sharp Frankford Junction curve, because an automatic braking mechanism has been in place for years on the southbound side of the tracks to stop a speeding train."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20150515_Amtrak_failed_to_install_train-speed_control_at_dangerous_Frankford_curve.html#f5ieHgJfWLP19W3h.99

- oldman

Could be a swiss-cheese effect accident - all the holes in the various safety systems lined up and presto - an accident happens.  Airline industry uses that analogy for all accidents. People, processes, technology, and bad timing.

[Hap]

There has to be something we are not aware of yet

Ya think!?

I am sad because I suspect how this will end.

I am adamant in my opposition of scurrility.

[mbailey]

Just watched the 5:30 NTSB news conf. Starting from 65seconds prior to the end of the data capture on the event recorder the train sped up from 70mph to 106 at 16secs befor the end of data and slowed to 102 at the time of the accident...the emergency braking system was deployed at the time of the accident.  The toxicology tests aren't back yet, nor has any of the engineers cell data been checked.  The one thing I learned is that there are no physical speed signs (like on a highway) alerting to what speed the train should be going. It's all based on time....ie: the train should or should not be at a certain spot in the route at a given time. Also not only does the engineer need to be certified on the train he is operating, but is also required to be certified on the route he operating the train on.....no data yet on weather or not the train was manually sped up or if it was a mechanical failure in the system used to accelerate the locomotive.

[Meatwad]

Looks like a train will go into emergency if it quickly loses air pressure on the lines. That could explain why it didnt go into emergency until the derailment, one of the coaches could of already jumped the track and broke the air line between cars before the rest went

[Oldman731]

The plot thickens:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/16/us/amtrak-train-may-have-been-struck-before-it-derailed-officials-say.html?WT.mc_id=2015-MAY-AOL-US_AUD_DEV-0501-0531&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=MAYAUDDEV&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D507654903&_r=0

- oldman