Author Topic: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39  (Read 13071 times)

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #120 on: July 22, 2015, 10:58:29 PM »
Yes, lets use logic.

1. The USAF, USN and Marines all want this aircraft and anyone who has flow it has nothing but praise for it.

2. You, whom has no first hand experience with the F-35, think it's a waste of money.

Whose opinion should I logically place more trust in? Yeah, it's not you...
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #121 on: July 22, 2015, 11:04:46 PM »
F-16, combat capable NOW, can do what an F-35 will be able to do.

You have no idea what so ever what the F-35 is, and will be capable of doing beyond what little declassified information Lockheed Martin and the DoD have released to the public. To think that you can make an informed opinion with so little info is just insane. And to claim otherwise is just hubris.
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Offline XxDaSTaRxx

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #122 on: July 22, 2015, 11:04:55 PM »
 :rofl

Yes, yes. Did you hear that it was only as capable as an F-16? So you're all for the US Spending 1.5 trillion on essentially an F-16 with a fancy paint job and new name? I know somebody I wouldn't trust with my life savings.

And You have first hand experience with the F-35 then? Because if not you're opinion has no more weight behind it than mine.

EDIT: Had to fix the price of what the full F-35 program will cost.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 11:08:41 PM by XxDaSTaRxx »
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Offline XxDaSTaRxx

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #123 on: July 22, 2015, 11:06:33 PM »
You have no idea what so ever what the F-35 is, and will be capable of doing beyond what little declassified information Lockheed Martin and the DoD have released to the public. To think that you can make an informed opinion with so little info is just insane. And to claim otherwise is just hubris.
And you do? So you know for fact that the F-35 will be better than an F-16? Because you've seen LM's documents on the F-35's capabilities?
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #124 on: July 22, 2015, 11:14:29 PM »
The Major said the F-35 was as capable as the F-16 in the CAS role, but in any other mission the F-35 would win hands down.

Check the rest of this thread. I've not made any claims as to what the F-35 can or cannot do, except what the people in the know have released. How could I? How can anyone?
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #125 on: July 23, 2015, 05:31:43 AM »
Because there are info about the performance, both from LM and DoD. Thats were the concerns about poor acceleration and turn performance are coming from. Concerns that LM fails to give a good answer to. Only response is that it will not need those capabilities anyway so it doesnt matter. And that its really worrying.
Several countries have start to doubt in the F-35, if prize isnt going down and LM starts to deliver combat ready planes soon im sure we will see countries that drop the 35 for another fighter.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #126 on: July 23, 2015, 09:23:21 AM »
Im very circumspect about anything I read about the F35. You had the two largest defense conglomerates going head to head to win the JSF contract, the biggest in History, with the X35 winning over Boeing's X32. I imagine that upset Boeing cause the contract would have put them on top military aircraft-wise. So who knows how many paid off Senators, Congressman, spoke person's, Generals, media outlets, and assorted goons they have mobilized to bad mouth the F35 and their competitor. Especially since so much is riding on the F/18 Growlers Boeing is trying to talk the Govt. into buying at 90 m a pop to make up for the F35's supposed short comings.

This from a company who whole heartedly endorsed the concept of the JSF up until the time their flawed X32 rightfully lost the fly off. Their design and plan was deeply flawed and so we have these two Industrial Giants purse fighting over what it can and can not do even tho the supposed "test" was made with a F35 stripped of its stealth and avionics, "I guess that F16 pilot speaking out will land a sweet gig with Boeing soon".

Its just hard to be anything but a cynic when reading claims anymore. There is so much big money at stake and so much soft money being tossed around...Opinions are so easily bought today.

Secondly where exactly is the threat that should force us to spend even more money to get a system up and running that is already way over budget? The airplane is one big flying computer with 5 times the software code of the F22 and while there have been a few glitches the software development has probably gone better then expected. These so called "failures of the code that result in certain systems being delayed" are often just development blocs that are being achieved according to schedule.

The USMC is choosing to go ahead with declaring "operational" with a current software block. The software needed to operate the gun has always been scheduled for 2017. The USN is requiring block 3F before they declare operational, which will be late '17 or early '18, because they feel they have no definitive need for the system, with an earlier software block, before then.

Why would that be? I guess ISIS is not an air threat and the Russians and Chinese are still stumbling around trying to copy a 1st gen stealth aircraft. So why rush anything when there is very little need to do so?
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #127 on: July 23, 2015, 02:32:55 PM »
Because there are info about the performance, both from LM and DoD. Thats were the concerns about poor acceleration and turn performance are coming from. Concerns that LM fails to give a good answer to. Only response is that it will not need those capabilities anyway so it doesnt matter. And that its really worrying.

You may be worried, but the people who fly the F-35 are not. The F-35 was not designed to beat the F-16 by out turning or E-fighting it. The USAF/USN/Marines did not order a plane capable of doing that. They ordered a long range, stealthy, multi-role strike fighter. The Joint Strike Fighter.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #128 on: July 23, 2015, 02:37:34 PM »
The Boeing X-32... God, I'm glad we didn't get that one. The village idiot of stealth planes.

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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #129 on: July 23, 2015, 02:57:47 PM »
You may be worried, but the people who fly the F-35 are not. The F-35 was not designed to beat the F-16 by out turning or E-fighting it. The USAF/USN/Marines did not order a plane capable of doing that. They ordered a long range, stealthy, multi-role strike fighter. The Joint Strike Fighter.

The F-16 is a multi-role strike fighter too... As most modern fighters. It doesnt mean that they are giving up the fighter capability. I really dont see any good reason for rejecting turn fighing capability when developing a new fighter. The F-35 concept isnt really that new. Most modern fighters are multi role/ swing role, capable of doing everything from dog fighing to photo reccon and CAS. How can it be desirable to build a plane that is screwed if its long range missiles miss?
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #130 on: July 23, 2015, 03:06:45 PM »
The F-16 was designed as a light Mach 2+ interceptor. Over time it has become a strike fighter. Very few fighters can turn and burn with an F-16.

How can it be desirable to build a plane that is screwed if its long range missiles miss?

That's the kind of slander and uninformed opinions I was talking about.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #131 on: July 23, 2015, 03:19:46 PM »
Lol, and your opinion is so well informed...

The F-16 had two (2) drop tanks, it should be more than enough to even the odds for a clean F-35....
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #132 on: July 23, 2015, 03:28:02 PM »
Lol, and your opinion is so well informed...

You still don't get it. I don't have an opinion on the F-35. I'm not in any way able to have an informed opinion with the limited information available to me. Neither are you.



The F-16 had two (2) drop tanks, it should be more than enough to even the odds for a clean F-35....

No. A two-bag Viper will out fly the F-15, F/A-18, Mirage 2000, Su-27 and most other primary air-2-air fighters in the world. At least in the opinion of C.W. Lemoine, who has flown F-16s and now fly F/A-18s for a living.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #133 on: July 23, 2015, 03:33:40 PM »
Oh yes u have, a very strong opinion...
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Greatest fighter ever built besides the p39
« Reply #134 on: July 23, 2015, 03:35:50 PM »
And what might that be, pray tell?
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