A perspective on Aces High then and now.

[The Fugitive]

<snip, boring nostalgic stuff  >


My concern is will games like steal the sheep subtract from the population that plays air to air combat for entertainment?  I understand the populations age in this community is probably getting younger, not many old fartz like me still around.  HTC must do what is best for his business and the game must evolve into what will attract more subscribers.
This is business and not personal.  I'm anxiously awaiting the new version!  Many of us old timers have left for various reasons.  Life, economy, the change in gameplay within the community etc.  I'm hoping my love of air to air combat will stay with me for many more years.  My love of the aircraft and the pilots histories, and the combat history of WWII
will never leave me.

Off soapbox.......longwinded.  If anyone wishes to add something constructive please do so.  It can't hurt!  Remember, this is my point of view only.

Great post old friend!

I agree, personally I can't see why HTC would waste time with the "capture the sheep" game. If it's part of the main arena it will take players away from the "war".... and we know how well that goes over with those fighting it. If there is a way to grief that portion of the map they will.

Unlike hack, I think it will only teach players how to run, maybe dodge. How long will player "stay in jail" waiting to be rescued? I don't know, to me it takes away from the game, not adds. But like Hajo said, HTC knows what they are doing to expand and/or make the game more appealing to others. I only play two games, this one and Vegas style solitaire on my phone. Im not looking for any thing else.

I too am looking forward to playing the new version. I hope it has more to it than "eye candy". Back "then" this game was a lot of fun to play. While there was a lot of competition there was very little malis. Everyone got along pretty well and everyone learned from each other. Things are different now. Personally I think it IS worst, and I think many agree as we have seen the numbers drop. If the game was still fun and exciting to those players many more would have stayed.

We shall see. It's nice seeing some of the old guard returning. Maybe we'll see more of the old style of play come back too.

[Hap]

<S> Hajo my old friend.  Well said.  2002 to 2004, for me, were the glory years.

[Pongo]

Hajo...
that was sweet and I haven't played the game in years, but that is not what the MA was like.
It was flames, it was crying, it was chest thumping and whining and gloating.

There was also sportsmanship, but common.

[eddiek]

<S> Hajo, and all the other "old guard"..........
I agree with what he said wholeheartedly.  At one point, probably 2000-2005, I looked forward to logging in.  Every time was an adventure.  There were "win the war" types, there were base takers, but mainly it was about combat, getting in there and mixing it up with an opponent(s), and win or lose, throw a <S> out on the open channel.
At first I began to see squads getting larger and larger, with corresponding results..........it wasn't about who could fly better or fight better, it was about simply overwhelming with numbers.
Then with more squads joining the more is better ranks, that devolved into the NOE "hit em where they ain't", avoid combat if at all possible style of play.  Numerous posts on this BBS about players surprising one of the NOE raids and most of not all of the raiders almost instantly bailing.
Real life kept me from being able to actively play the game for several years, but this board is one of the few that I check in and ready literally every day.  I've seen the gameplay change over the years even though I couldn't play. When the game was most fun, for me, was when people sought out combat, not avoided it.
With the numbers in the arena dropping (there were 35 in the Late War MA when I logged in this morning at 7AM CST), one has to wonder if the changes made to assuage certain cliques has driven people away.  I know that personally, taking a plane up to go GV hunting is the last thing I want to do anymore.  Sometimes that's the only thing going on so you have little choice other than logging off.  It was a lot more fun for me back before the icon range for GV's got reduced so much that they might as well not have any.  It's a combat game/sim.......you choose your ride, you take your chances.  Don't wanna lose a perk tank or plane, don't take one out.  It's that simple.  That is one decision by HTC that I am and will openly critical of.  That decision has led to the strat raids by GV's, with the raiders being for all intents and purposes invisible from the air.  The universal 6K for all icons worked in my opinion. 
Then we have the fly so high the fighters can't reach ya buff drivers; encountering someone like 999000 (<S> to you, sir, was refreshing to see someone fly at an alt like they wanted a fight) who flies into a fight, not over it, and gets kills while he's doing it........those are the folks that I consider assets to the game.  They seek out combat, they don't try to avoid it.  Like ghi said, I suspect something is off somewhere somehow........I filmed a sortie the other night with 34K B29's, then 35K B-17's, both were able to outpace the opposing fighters.........the B-17's, were on film, running about 40mph faster than the speed charts show they should be, all the while holding that same alt and not diving.  Maybe it's time for HT to introduce the jet stream or something above certain alts;  sure you can fly against it, but your accuracy is gonna stink much like in RL.
I look forward to seeing what the next version holds in store.  The whole sheep game holds no appeal for me..........I truly hope that there is more to the coming update than that. 
<S> to all........carry on!!

[Max]

Great post Hajo!

Suffice to say that human nature, good and bad, is more or less the same after tens of thousands of years. What has changed for those of us who came of age in the advent of personal computers in the 80's, and the dawn of the internet in the mid-90's, is our absolute amazement at discovering our fascination with WW2 history, movies, etc. was made a reality by the discovery AOL, Gamestorm and Air Warrior. And thank cod it came along after the gENIE guys, who used to spend hundreds a month on AW...eh Brooke?

Our generation was the direct prodigy of those who fought the battles and died doing so...on all sides. We were given the keys to a magical new realm thanks to Jobs, Gates, Kesmai and all that followed. Yes, even back then, the slap talk, bravado and the pure evil of DoK Gonzo were commonplace. On the flip side, we were a small band brothers and once the chest thumping subsided, those who learned the secrets and drank at the fountain of knowledge, shared with the poor & pathetic dweebs.

Those of us under 40, have no exposure to those early days oF technology. Today it's all  about the fight, the win, the victory. Absent a victory, the recourse is anger, incrimination, running away and flaming on 200 or PVT.

Yup Hajo, great post. Unfortunately it will fall on many deaf ears. No one's fault really. The world is just a very different place than it was 20 years ago.

[Delirium]

My concern is will games like steal the sheep subtract from the population that plays air to air combat for entertainment?  I understand the populations age in this community is probably getting younger, not many old fartz like me still around. 

I agree with you to some extent, but I feel it is the older vets responsibility to educate the youths on the historical nature of the period we attempt to emulate. I'd much rather have the younger ones look up to you (Hajo), Oldman, CorkyJr, Bighorn and many others who I cannot think of at the time (my apologies).

So let them come to Aces High to steal sheep. Welcome them with open arms, educate them on the history of both the real events and the history of the game genre.
If the old timers do not educate the new players the alternative is the ignorant, narcissistic 'Richard Craniums' that are cropping up in this game will become the archetype for the new ones to follow.

[Hajo]

I agree with you to some extent, but I feel it is the older vets responsibility to educate the youths on the historical nature of the period we attempt to emulate. I'd much rather have the younger ones look up to you (Hajo), Oldman, CorkyJr, Bighorn and many others who I cannot think of at the time (my apologies).

So let them come to Aces High to steal sheep. Welcome them with open arms, educate them on the history of both the real events and the history of the game genre.
If the old timers do not educate the new players the alternative is the ignorant, narcissistic 'Richard Craniums' that are cropping up in this game will become the archetype for the new ones to follow.

Del absolutely spot on, well done.  There was a time when someone of any country would ask you for a few tips and tricks flying your aircraft of choice.  The younger ones wanted to learn.  I'm sure you've helped many P38 drivers as I've helped Jug Drivers..........in the past. Many others have done the same in this game.  Can't help someone who doesn't wish help.  Can't teach History of the game and of WWII.  Many of us have sizable libraries on the subject, the history of the squadrons, the men who flew them and so on.

Dan reads extensively and has done research on WWII aviation.  I have done so also but not to the level of Dan.  During the push to have the Beaufighter we collected a lot of info on the Beaus.  I have 3 pilots notes on 3 separate versions of the Beau, drawings prints you name it.  We read and learned the history.  Was emailed to hitech creations also.
In essence I'm sure many of us would be glad to help.  To teach the history etc.  How the spit should be handled, etc.  Someone has to want the help.  That may be the problem.
I still love the sting of combat even if I'm flying a kite.  If I win great.........if I don't I pay for another shot at it.

A few days ago, I posted the loses for 10 July 1940 on both the RAF and Luftwaffes sides during the Battle of Britain.  This is in the general discussion section of our BBS.  It put a plane in the topic, the gentleman or gentlemens names who were in the aircraft.  What transpired with them and their aircraft and crew if any.  I put an actual name to an actual squadron and the results of those crew that day.  I had views.  But not one response.  I have no idea if anyone has or had any interest.  Views but not a response.  I guessed no one cares what happened that day in WWII over Britain and the British Channel.  Hey......maybe they already know?  I am not sure if many of us care about the history anymore <shrugz>.  Btw this community is missing a great asset.  His name is Fencer. This game is poorer without his participation imho. I hope my old friend is doing well.

[eddiek]

Hajo, and others who were around way back when..............
Was it Mathman or Hangtime that used to get on the open channel "Greetings, despised enemies, .........." and announce a raid?  Tons of bombers, with escorts would come to your HQ.  No sneaking, no flying to high to be intercepted, just an out and out brawl at 20-25K, buff and escorts against defenders.  Those were fun for everyone involved.  Sometimes they got through to the HQ, sometimes they didn't.  But it was about the combat.  No one fixated on winning the war(s).  Fly, fight, have fun, and if in the process a map got reset, so be it. 
Miss those days.  The gameplay in the here and now doesn't even come close in comparison.
Your mileage may vary, but I remember a time when it wasn't just about who won and lost, about winning by any means, fair or foul..........there was, believe it or not.....sportmanship, tradition, chivalry, and a sense of honor.

[seano]

I miss the big numbers. We lost a lot of players when they split the main arena and also when they implemented eny.  I don't know what all the sheep talk is about, but hopefully it's to get more targets. 

[Hajo]

Hajo, and others who were around way back when..............
Was it Mathman or Hangtime that used to get on the open channel "Greetings, despised enemies, .........." and announce a raid?  Tons of bombers, with escorts would come to your HQ.  No sneaking, no flying to high to be intercepted, just an out and out brawl at 20-25K, buff and escorts against defenders.  Those were fun for everyone involved.  Sometimes they got through to the HQ, sometimes they didn't.  But it was about the combat.  No one fixated on winning the war(s).  Fly, fight, have fun, and if in the process a map got reset, so be it. 
Miss those days.  The gameplay in the here and now doesn't even come close in comparison.
Your mileage may vary, but I remember a time when it wasn't just about who won and lost, about winning by any means, fair or foul..........there was, believe it or not.....sportmanship, tradition, chivalry, and a sense of honor.

EddieK that was Mathman for sure LOL.  Every time he logged we received his greeting..........and away we went to intercept the incoming raid.  Great fun!

[The Fugitive]

Del absolutely spot on, well done.  There was a time when someone of any country would ask you for a few tips and tricks flying your aircraft of choice.  The younger ones wanted to learn.  I'm sure you've helped many P38 drivers as I've helped Jug Drivers..........in the past. Many others have done the same in this game.  Can't help someone who doesn't wish help.  Can't teach History of the game and of WWII.  Many of us have sizable libraries on the subject, the history of the squadrons, the men who flew them and so on.

Dan reads extensively and has done research on WWII aviation.  I have done so also but not to the level of Dan.  During the push to have the Beaufighter we collected a lot of info on the Beaus.  I have 3 pilots notes on 3 separate versions of the Beau, drawings prints you name it.  We read and learned the history.  Was emailed to hitech creations also.
In essence I'm sure many of us would be glad to help.  To teach the history etc.  How the spit should be handled, etc.  Someone has to want the help.  That may be the problem.
I still love the sting of combat even if I'm flying a kite.  If I win great.........if I don't I pay for another shot at it.

A few days ago, I posted the loses for 10 July 1940 on both the RAF and Luftwaffes sides during the Battle of Britain.  This is in the general discussion section of our BBS.  It put a plane in the topic, the gentleman or gentlemens names who were in the aircraft.  What transpired with them and their aircraft and crew if any.  I put an actual name to an actual squadron and the results of those crew that day.  I had views.  But not one response.  I have no idea if anyone has or had any interest.  Views but not a response.  I guessed no one cares what happened that day in WWII over Britain and the British Channel.  Hey......maybe they already know?  I am not sure if many of us care about the history anymore <shrugz>.  Btw this community is missing a great asset.  His name is Fencer. This game is poorer without his participation imho. I hope my old friend is doing well.

I have tried to help many times. While I'm not good enough  to be a trainer or anything some things even I can see someone doing poorly.  When on a pm I let them know I get lambasted for being an azz. Like you said, some people don't want help.

On the other hand I was getting  my butt handed to me by a guy in a gv and he gave me a few pointers  and tips when I asked. A couple days later I snuck up on him and killed him with out him seeing me I think he gave me the kill LOL. I've also had guys say switch sides and I'll help you and when you do they say enjoy your 12 hour stay and then ignore you

As I've said before,  HTC  has made a great game, they just need a better class of people playing, like we did in the old days.

[68ZooM]

there's a lot of great post here from a lot of old time pilots, Hajo your post was spot on I think the funnest time for me on here was like 2002-2008 God I could not wait to get off work to get home to fly in the arena where it was maxed out you had to wait to get in then once you got in there was fights of all kinds mini wars all over the map instead of the horde vs horde fights we have now. I can't wait for the new version to come out and I hope it re-ignites that flame I have in me for this game because call you what you want this is a great game just going to another growing spurt.

[Zoney]

As I've said before,  HTC  has made a great game, they just need a better class of people playing, like we did in the old days.

I believe that as in the past we have a preponderance of players who are nice and are helpful and do contribute to the game.  I think that those who are negative and take from the game are just more vociferous.  It therefore falls to the "good guys" to do even more and continue to voice their opinions.  If not, then the new players will accept the negatives as the standard and are more likely to follow in their footsteps.

If I may, "Wag more, bark less".  Let's show them that "Happy Puppy's" get petted more, and are more likely to be searched for if lost, and missed when gone.

[Tilt]

I suppose it's good to hanker after the best of times past. This is not a new debate by any means.

I remember when AW extended capture beyond the neutral fields, there being extensive debate about land grab v combat, these days we add massed gv's into the mix and a clientele that is typically some 20 years younger (if not in age then certainly in outlook).

There is nothing new or novel about MMOG's and especially WW2 combat MMOG's.

There is little respect in the game as I see it. It is often discussed and I see many giving it, assuming it or demanding it. However the measure by which it gained is different and as such the definition has changed over the years.

Hajo makes a good point regarding the feedback some (and by no means all) might have given after a fight.

This is a rare thing these days. Indeed it is common for a jibe, or point of mockery to be the subsequent dialogue. If not an argument over the proper use of /.S or indeed insinuations of bad character regarding the nature of the combat.

The best one may expect is an exchange of /.S.

I am always surprised how often I hear/see dialogue that assumes that the other side is cheating, or winning by the use of underhand or dishonourable tactics. This takes place in every country.

So IMO we have a fundamental difference in mind set between that seen in 1995 and 2015 in WW2 air combat MMOG's. Actually is that so surprising? Does it not reflect our societies in general? or at least reflect the "class" of clientele that can access these games within our societies?

What I find really surprising is that some believe that by education we can make others do what we do not actually do our selves. I cannot remember the last time any experten told me anything about a combat I just lost that was in any way of an attempt to be of assistance.

Perhaps rather than gathering stars in an achievement system we could adopt CPID/handle markers that invite proper feed back?

[bj229r]

If it takes herding farm critters with a P-47 to get people in here, I'm ok with it. If they stay, it will be due to their overall experience of the game