LA7 Usage: WWII vs. AH

[Saxman]

and it doesn't maneuver well enough at high speed to force a turnfight

No idea where you're getting this, as the Corsair has excellent maneuverability at high speeds, especially as the rate of roll (which is already faster than the La-7, and second only to the 190 series) only gets better the faster she's moving, and that big barn door on the stabilizer maintains authority at higher airspeeds than the rudder on pretty much any other fighter (used to love skidding shots in during high-speed pursuits when the other guy thought I couldn't get an angle on him. One of my favorite kills was co-alt merge on a P-47 who was passing me about 30 degrees off my nose. I was going about 300, but still could kick the rudder and saw his wing off as he went by).

[glzsqd]

No idea where you're getting this, as the Corsair has excellent maneuverability at high speeds, especially as the rate of roll (which is already faster than the La-7, and second only to the 190 series) only gets better the faster she's moving, and that big barn door on the stabilizer maintains authority at higher airspeeds than the rudder on pretty much any other fighter (used to love skidding shots in during high-speed pursuits when the other guy thought I couldn't get an angle on him. One of my favorite kills was co-alt merge on a P-47 who was passing me about 30 degrees off my nose. I was going about 300, but still could kick the rudder and saw his wing off as he went by).

Ta152 has better rudder authority in my experience.

[Skyyr]

No idea where you're getting this, as the Corsair has excellent maneuverability at high speeds, especially as the rate of roll (which is already faster than the La-7, and second only to the 190 series) only gets better the faster she's moving, and that big barn door on the stabilizer maintains authority at higher airspeeds than the rudder on pretty much any other fighter (used to love skidding shots in during high-speed pursuits when the other guy thought I couldn't get an angle on him. One of my favorite kills was co-alt merge on a P-47 who was passing me about 30 degrees off my nose. I was going about 300, but still could kick the rudder and saw his wing off as he went by).

We're talking relative maneuverability against the LA-7, not in absolute terms of raw maneuverability.

Again, the offer is standing for an LA-7 vs F4U duel. I think it'd be quite fun, honestly.

[Saxman]

We're talking relative maneuverability against the LA-7, not in absolute terms of raw maneuverability.

Again, the offer is standing for an LA-7 vs F4U duel. I think it'd be quite fun, honestly.

As I said somewhere a couple pages back, you want someone who's flown a) recently and b) regularly. I haven't had the time to do either in a long time, and lately only hop on briefly to check out new patches.

[pembquist]

How about this: The LA7 is an airplane whose strengths are relatively easy to take advantage of while the CHog requires a higher level of skill to unlock its strengths. So it could be that below a certain skill level the LA7 will dominate and above a certain skill level either parity will be achieved or the CHog will win more than lose.

[Randy1]

Players that choose a plane like the La7 and don't venture into lesser  performance planes are missing out.

[save]

Looks like we need the F4u4c

[Saxman]

How about this: The LA7 is an airplane whose strengths are relatively easy to take advantage of while the CHog requires a higher level of skill to unlock its strengths. So it could be that below a certain skill level the LA7 will dominate and above a certain skill level either parity will be achieved or the CHog will win more than lose.

TBH, listening to the flow of the conversation really makes me think Skyyr is used to fighting Corsair pilots who only know how to dump speed and go to flaps, which are just as prevalent in the Mains as La pilots who only use it as a HO rocket. What makes the Corsair so dangerous with a pilot who knows how to use all its assets to effect is its flexibility:

Yes, the 1-series Corsairs don't get their E back very easily once it's been scrubbed off, however the airframe naturally holds onto E very well when flying clean, and it's only once you start popping gear or flaps that it loses it quickly. It's also very deceptive of its E state. So while the margin for error is slimmer (and it's not that the ability to reclaim E in the 1A/D/C is BAD like it is in the 1, they're fairly middle of the pack and it's only the birdcage for which that's a real issue), the Corsair can hang just by its ability to retain its E.

BUT if the pilot needs to he CAN scrub that E easily and use its flaps and rudder to great effect in a low-speed angles fight. Not many other aircraft really have that ability to excel in both types of fights AND transition between them so easily.

[DmonSlyr]

TBH, listening to the flow of the conversation really makes me think Skyyr is used to fighting Corsair pilots who only know how to dump speed and go to flaps, which are just as prevalent in the Mains as La pilots who only use it as a HO rocket. What makes the Corsair so dangerous with a pilot who knows how to use all its assets to effect is its flexibility:

Yes, the 1-series Corsairs don't get their E back very easily once it's been scrubbed off, however the airframe naturally holds onto E very well when flying clean, and it's only once you start popping gear or flaps that it loses it quickly. It's also very deceptive of its E state. So while the margin for error is slimmer (and it's not that the ability to reclaim E in the 1A/D/C is BAD like it is in the 1, they're fairly middle of the pack and it's only the birdcage for which that's a real issue), the Corsair can hang just by its ability to retain its E.

BUT if the pilot needs to he CAN scrub that E easily and use its flaps and rudder to great effect in a low-speed angles fight. Not many other aircraft really have that ability to excel in both types of fights AND transition between them so easily.

This is a good point. Fighting with a F4U with some E/speed is very dangerous against most of the fighters. If the LA doesn't match the E state from the beginning he will be the loser if he attempts the stone cold turn fight, his only choice then is to extend away, which is what most of them do in the MA. During a 1v1 fight in the DA the La7 might have the speed merge advantage, which is good for  skyyrs style of fighting, however if you did match the merge, the F4U would easily gain the 6 of the La7 after the first roll around. The Chog is especially dangerous because of the guns, one bad overshoot the wrong way can lead to a face full of nasty 20mm. In the low deck fights and defending in the MA, I'd give it to the La7. The La7 is one of the best defenders in the game. While in the attacking a base situation the F4U is much more versatile and better in the long range higher alt BnZ style of fighting. A F4U going 260 on the deck is an extremely bad spot for it and is at it's worst performance mark, it can only attempt to dodge the attack and force an overshoot, it will never be able to skirt away from the fight like the La7, or fly fast low on the deck for a while and pop on someone's 6 quickly. That's why the F4U is a bit harder to fly, you have to be a lot more patient and gain the alt, without losing all your smash on the first dive.

Both of the planes are different in terms of MA situations so it just depends on who is using the plane to their strengths in the situation. A higher F4U is highly dangerous to a La7 so that is where the F4U would beat it in the MA. The La7 cannot run and it cannot out turn the f4u with more E so it would normally lose that battle.


A 1v1 in the DA would be interesting with both planes, however, I think the La7 would win with the higher speed to merge ratio and knowing Skyyrs style it would be a rope fight although Vs a C model you might get wacked by the spray n prey hahahaha which is so deadly against a Chog.

I also agree that judging a F4Us E is difficult and it can climb better than people give it credit for.


P.S I avoid the Hellcat because the F4Us are just a much better plane all around. The hellcat is a good fight for the F4U but still is no match and will get out maneuvered.

[Saxman]

A 1v1 in the DA would be interesting with both planes, however, I think the La7 would win with the higher speed to merge ratio and knowing Skyyrs style it would be a rope fight although Vs a C model you might get wacked by the spray n prey hahahaha which is so deadly against a Chog.

I also agree that judging a F4Us E is difficult and it can climb better than people give it credit for.


P.S I avoid the Hellcat because the F4Us are just a much better plane all around. The hellcat is a good fight for the F4U but still is no match and will get out maneuvered.

The problem with roping an F4U, even with the overall climb advantage of the La-7, is whether or not you can get enough separation BEFORE he runs out of steam to take advantage of this. I don't NEED to follow the La-7 all the way up. I just need to stay in long enough for a shot (and beware following a Corsair up, too, because even if you could catch him, he can also haul that nose around and put his guns in your face VERY quickly). And yes, the La-7 has better straight-line acceleration and a higher top speed, but unless he's already at a significant airspeed advantage that still takes time to make use of, it's not a matter of pushing a button and instantly walking away.

And that becomes important when you factor in the guns; whether you're talking Brownings or Hispanos, the Corsair has a TREMENDOUS advantage in long-range shooting, particularly with the Hispanos. Unless you've already got a big lead, any sort of straight-line getaway is going to be dicey.

[Skyyr]

TBH, listening to the flow of the conversation really makes me think Skyyr is used to fighting Corsair pilots who only know how to dump speed and go to flaps, which are just as prevalent in the Mains as La pilots who only use it as a HO rocket. What makes the Corsair so dangerous with a pilot who knows how to use all its assets to effect is its flexibility:

You're missing the point: it's not a matter of the pilot (because we're discussing equally-skilled pilots), it's a matter of the capabilities of the aircraft. A plane cannot do what it cannot do. Someone who realizes this will exploit the weaknesses of the other aircraft. The best turning aircraft in the world isn't of much use if its faster, better climbing opponent never engages in a turnfight.

The F4U can't match the energy state of the LA-7, everything else being balanced/neutral. If an F4U tries to E-fight, they're setting themselves up to lose. If they try to turnfight against an opponent who already possesses an energy advantage, they automatically allow their opponent an even greater energy advantage. Provided the opponent stays in the energy fight, and given that the LA-7 actually maneuvers better at high speed, the F4U can't recover and will eventually be forced to the deck (unless the LA-7 pilot makes a mistake).

The F4U cannot climb with the LA, and it can't maintain a turn with it without popping flaps. Those two factors alone set it up for a loss. If we had E/M diagrams, you'd find that the F4U simply is outclassed entirely by the LA in the 10-12k altitude range and below (depending on the model).

The only F4U pilots who present a challenge are those who understand that the LA is the dominant plane, and therefore fly aggressively without committing. And even then, the only real threat are the 1c pilots who might be able to connect a snapshot of quad hispanos (as the MG's are relatively ineffective for snapshots).

As Violator said, the F4U really doesn't have an advantage unless it... starts with an alt/speed advantage (which, by definition, is admitting the LA-7 is the dominant aircraft). I'd personally rate Violator as one of the best 1a/1d pilots I've encountered.

[glzsqd]

The only F4U pilots who present a challenge are those who understand that the LA is the dominant plane, and therefore fly aggressively without committing. And even then, the only real threat are the 1c pilots who might be able to connect a snapshot of quad hispanos (as the MG's are relatively ineffective for snapshots).

When I'm flying the F4U, those light Russian planes are the scariest. Generally speaking, In my experience I can only ever get 1 maybe 2 shot opportunities on an well flown LA7 before he has the fight.


These kind of debates come up fairly often(Fm2 vs109F4, F4u vs Spit, F4u vs 109 etc) and the conclusion always ends up being the same. The plane with the better powerloading has the edge in a sterile CO/E 1 on 1. The MA, however is not a sterile environment at all and attributes that have little bearing in a DA match can be used to great effect in the MA.

In the end, its all about relativity to altitude, the worst performing F4U still out runs the LA7 above 12k.

[Scca]

Let's just all agree that Skyyr is right (which is all he wants to hear anyway), and stop beating the dead horse.. On paper, the LA is better than the C-hog.  Happy now Skyyr?

In the MA, it's a toss of a coin on most occasions.  Run into a noob in an LA, Hog wins, Run into Rumal in an LA, not so much...

[glzsqd]

Let's just all agree that Skyyr is right (which is all he wants to hear anyway), and stop beating the dead horse.. On paper, the LA is better than the C-hog.  Happy now Skyyr?

In the MA, it's a toss of a coin on most occasions.  Run into a noob in an LA, Hog wins, Run into Rumal in an LA, not so much...

Well actually, on paper the LA7 holds the performance advantage below 12k. To truly determine which is the "Better Fighter" you must look at how many mission profiles each can satisfy and how effective they are relative to the other.

[Skyyr]

Let's just all agree that Skyyr is right (which is all he wants to hear anyway), and stop beating the dead horse.. On paper, the LA is better than the C-hog.  Happy now Skyyr?

In the MA, it's a toss of a coin on most occasions.  Run into a noob in an LA, Hog wins, Run into Rumal in an LA, not so much...

I'm simply interested in putting theories to test and finding the one that prevails. If you contradict data with an opinion, you should be able to objectively prove it. That is, if you're interested in discussion and learning and becoming a better pilot (which I am interested in these things). If you're just interested in repeating your own opinion, however, with no ability to back it up with first-hand performance, then that's a completely different scenario. Sort of like the guy who claims he caught a 50lb bass, but has no pictures, witnesses, proof, or anything else.

Falsely establishing that two aircraft are equal and it just depends on the pilot (when in reality one aircraft outperforms the other when flown correctly) can be the difference between months of frustration (and perhaps even a cancelled subscription) and a eureka moment. This is especially true for new players who are still learning.

It also helps to improve one's game. As Violator mentioned, the F4U is pretty much outclassed on equal footing. However, with an altitude advantage, it evens things out. Understanding (and actually acknowledging) this fact in turn helps you develop tactics for success instead of repeating the same mistakes over and over, thinking "oh I'm just losing because my opponent plays more" (when in reality, you're losing because you're flying wrong).