Need advice on build

[GSakis]

Doing anything like that is a risk to a novice with little knowledge of Windows.  Adding an SSD to Windows is a risk for the novice as well.  I chose to limit HiTech Creations exposure.  It does not mean it is not something the well versed Windows user cannot do.  Just like installing an SSD is simple for the well versed hardware guy.

I never said SSD's do not help with performance, but one has to weigh the cost performance ratio and determine if it is an option worth having.  Even if I could get away with a smaller drive, the cost/performance ratio is still not worth it to me.  I spend most of my time in applications which are not constantly reading or writing from or to the drive.

This weekend, I spent 7 hours in one application where an SSD would be a waste of money.  Most Windows applications are not disk dependent and in those cases one has to decide if it is worth the seconds you might save loading the application (I say *might* because once Windows loads an application, it will simply keep it in memory until the memory is needed for something else making the next load of that same application virtually instantaneous).

What may be a non option for you doesn't mean it's not a good option for others. The people I know have a pretty small need for storage. Steam games, music library etc. can usually be stored easily on 1Tb SSD space and that costs only 330 dollars. For me using a computer without the SSD is out of the question. Once you get used to the responsiveness you start to hate old hdd:s.

Installing the SSD is no more risky than installing any hard drive. You need to be really timid and afraid to do anything on the computer before you have to skip the process (meaning the kind that buys ready computers and calls support when something doesn't work).

I don't know about you but most of the times I want to do something on the computer I do it the first time that day. So the program is not cached and needs to be loaded off the mass storage. I also like to boot my computers at least once a day. Of course one option would be to buy 16Gb more ram and start to hibernate but hibernation starts to blink the power light on my computers and that is very annoying at night. Not to mention the potential for problems if you don't boot regularly.

For me SSD has worked extremely well.

[Skuzzy]

I never leave my computers running and I never leave applications open when I am not using them.

$330.00 will buy two 4TB HD's and I could use them right now.  My 16TB NAS is about full and am looking at adding another unit to the network.

Yes, my storage requirements are high.  Definitely higher than most people.  Even so, I see SSD's as optional as the performance/cost ratios are still not good enough for me.

I have seen many people mess up the installation of an SSD, because they thought it would work just like a hard drive.  Only to find problems with OS support, BIOS support and so on, particularly on older hardware.  Or they bought the wrong SSD and do not understand why it will not work.

Here are a couple of examples.
1) People do not know to enable AHCI.
2) People do not know to enable trim on Windows 7.  I am pretty sure most people do not know how to enable it.

It is not as simple as plugging in a hard drive, if you want it to work well.

[ebfd11]

I have a SSD just for my OS and 6 sec startup is the norm... I put all my other programs on my 1TB HD..with a copy of the windows OS on it... I tried to do a start up from my HD by unplugging my ssd and I got a 12 sec start up with it. So if I see things correctly you can do a quick start up with the HD.

I went into my bios and did some tweaking for this .. ACHI isnt really hard to figure out... http://tweaks.com/windows/44119/improve-sata-hard-disk-performance-convert-from-ide-to-ahci/

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-performance-tweak,2911-2.html

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/quick-tip-improve-your-sata-disk-performance-by-converting-from-ide-to-ahci/

Google search is your friend..

LawnDart

[TequilaChaser]

whichever one who posted they use hibernate or sleep , you will mess up your OS/PC if you use that function in windows 7 64 bit......

I seriously recommend disabling it.....

TC

[Skuzzy]

whichever one who posted they use hibernate or sleep , you will mess up your OS/PC if you use that function in windows 7 64 bit......

I seriously recommend disabling it.....

TC

Absolutely true.

Lawndart, I was referring to novices in my original post about the problems with trying to tell someone how to speed up the boot process.  Those same novices have no clue how to search Google, or know they need to search before they start plopping in hardware.

[guncrasher]

installing an ssd is not just plug and play.  It takes a little bit of patience, specially figuring out a couple of things.

but gsakis the more you try to disagree with skuzzy, the more you validate what he said about the article you posted.

semp

[Navy84]

Thanks TC....I would love to see ya in the TA sometime for some tuning up on my skills.........looks like my thread kinda got hijacked with a boot up time argument LOL

[caldera]

whichever one who posted they use hibernate or sleep , you will mess up your OS/PC if you use that function in windows 7 64 bit......

I seriously recommend disabling it.....

TC

Absolutely true.

Lawndart, I was referring to novices in my original post about the problems with trying to tell someone how to speed up the boot process.  Those same novices have no clue how to search Google, or know they need to search before they start plopping in hardware.

I have Windows7 64 bit and have been using "sleep" every night for years.  Never noticed any problems.
How does it mess up your computer?

[TequilaChaser]

I have Windows7 64 bit and have been using "sleep" every night for years.  Never noticed any problems.
How does it mess up your computer?

caldera, it has been a well known issue in Windows 7 and using hibernate mode and a user's PC not waking up, etc...

type the following into Google :  problems with hibernate windows 7

you will find tons of information regarding hibernate mode & sleep mode

hope this helps

TC

[Bizman]

I have Windows7 64 bit and have been using "sleep" every night for years.  Never noticed any problems.
How does it mess up your computer?

If you don't want to read much, here's what I've encountered during the last decade with every Windows since 98: No Wlan after hibernation. Black screen after hibernation. No mouse after hibernation, especially USB/wireless. No USB after hibernation. Basically any component having the Power Management tab can continue sleeping.

Most of the cases have been on laptops, mainly because people tend to shut desktops down more often. In your case the reason you've not had problems may be because a gamer often disables Power Management.

[guncrasher]

at work, the company's it guys force all the computers to sleep after 10 minutes of inactivity.  if the computer sleeps for more than 10 minutes then we need to reboot or the programs work so slow that it is ridiculous. 

I have asked for the sleep time to be increased to 30 minutes but was denied due to "security concerns".  mind you that in our department 30 guys use the same "generic id" to log in into that computer.  and the log in id and password is just the same. and we have no access to the internet thru that computer.

semp

[GSakis]

See Rule #4

[GSakis]

I never leave my computers running and I never leave applications open when I am not using them.

$330.00 will buy two 4TB HD's and I could use them right now.  My 16TB NAS is about full and am looking at adding another unit to the network.

Yes, my storage requirements are high.  Definitely higher than most people.  Even so, I see SSD's as optional as the performance/cost ratios are still not good enough for me.

I have seen many people mess up the installation of an SSD, because they thought it would work just like a hard drive.  Only to find problems with OS support, BIOS support and so on, particularly on older hardware.  Or they bought the wrong SSD and do not understand why it will not work.

Here are a couple of examples.
1) People do not know to enable AHCI.
2) People do not know to enable trim on Windows 7.  I am pretty sure most people do not know how to enable it.

It is not as simple as plugging in a hard drive, if you want it to work well.

All you need to do is make sure you are using AHCI mode while installing. Windows will automatically activate TRIM. Install in legacy mode, no trim. It's no more complicated than that. In addition to that, SSD firmwares have developed by many generations already. They can now effectively handle themselves without the use of TRIM.

Remember Skuzzy that YOUR needs and YOUR storage amounts are not representing more than 0.1% of the user base. Most people who use the computer for gaming and surfing can make do with a fraction of your storage. For example I have perhaps 2 terabytes of overall data including backup copies from multiple computers. I would not completely switch to SSD either if I was you. I would simply run my OS and games from the SSD in order to have good user experience when I decide to boot up and play.

In fact that's what I have right now. I boot and play using the SSD but I also have traditional hdd:s with old stuff on them. I don't install games on the hdds anymore for performance reasons naturally.

[Chalenge]

You're not fooling anyone you know.

You don't know the environment in which Skuzzy is working. There could be any number of reasons he doesn't want to use SSDs, not the least of which is his own usage patterns with his boot drive.

What I find suspect here is the same suggestions have been made by another individual on these boards, and he too could not bring himself to realize that not everyone uses a computer in the same way. AND, he made the same mistake of suggesting that novice computer users purchase and use SSDs. In particular, this is not a good idea in all cases and when a computer based business has a customer recommend to their users that they buy and use a piece of equipment that may, or may not, survive a years time (again, because the typical novice knows nothing about their own hardware, or spends as little as possible on other components) then they are also risking those same novice users as customers.

All of these arguments have been presented to you many times over the years, and yet you still don't get it.

[Skuzzy]

I have never said my case was typical.  You are the one who keeps arguing everyone needs an SSD, which is not the case.  I have said over and over again, the cost/performance ratios are still not worth getting an SSD, for me.  Not to mention the loss of a SATA or PCI-e slot to something so small.

I do not disagree there are valid uses for SSD's, today, but they are still not for everyone.

Also note, if you are ADDING an SSD to a Windows 7 system it will NOT automatically enable TRIM, nor will it enable AHCI.  The typical end user has no idea what those terms are.