Author Topic: The half tail damage model  (Read 829 times)

Offline DmonSlyr

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The half tail damage model
« on: July 26, 2015, 11:32:34 AM »
I'd really like for the damage on the tail to represent more of a struggle if half if the vert stab gets shot off. I don't understand how missing one elevator makes your plane lift a lot slower, but get half the tail and the plane still lifts and flies just like nothing happen. It has been annoying to shoot half of someones tail off only for them to still be able to perform the same maneuvers just as easily as before. I think the half tail damage is cool, but the aircraft should not be able to still roll around with lift as well as it does. I feel like it should fly even worse and out of balance than if only the elevator gets shot off.

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Offline cobia38

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 04:23:50 PM »
aim better


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2015, 05:07:50 PM »
I'd really like for the damage on the tail to represent more of a struggle if half if the vert stab gets shot off. I don't understand how missing one elevator makes your plane lift a lot slower, but get half the tail and the plane still lifts and flies just like nothing happen. It has been annoying to shoot half of someones tail off only for them to still be able to perform the same maneuvers just as easily as before. I think the half tail damage is cool, but the aircraft should not be able to still roll around with lift as well as it does. I feel like it should fly even worse and out of balance than if only the elevator gets shot off.

 :salute

Do a search of the forums and you'll find the aerodynamic explanation for why it happens. 
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 08:28:59 AM »
Do a search of the forums and you'll find the aerodynamic explanation for why it happens.

So you are telling me, that a tail shot with 2-3 20mm hitting it, only clipping 1/2 of the tail off, still allows the plane to perform the same maneuvers at a constant rate during a turn and stall fight? The only plane I feel this actually has a performance effect on is the F4u. It is ridiculous to get a half tail shot on a plane from a good snap shot, only to still be out maneuvered (given they are in a better turning plane) like the fight I had the other night vs a Nik in a p38. Shoot half the tail off and the plane still flies perfectly fine.... That is just dumb to me. How can a plane missing only 1 elevator not have lift, but a plane missing half a tail still has the same lift. Aerodynamically, that doesn't even make sense. Why not just cut the cost all together and only fly with 1 half a tail?
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Offline kvuo75

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 08:35:24 AM »
Shoot half the tail off and the plane still flies perfectly fine....

it doesn't fly perfectly fine.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2015, 09:27:47 AM »
It is of course almost impossible to build an all-realistic damage model. And i dont think people will have it that way. Losing an elevator when flying at high speeds will make the plane pull up very hard and most likley disable the pilot. The accident with the "Galloping Gosth" is an extreme case but it shows how bad it can be to lose control surfaces.

I dont think we want to have our planes to be out of the fight as soon as the first tiny piece come off. Im afraid it will lead to more multi cannon birds trying to take all the snap shots they can hoping to rip of an elevator or something like that.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 11:18:45 AM »
It is of course almost impossible to build an all-realistic damage model. And i dont think people will have it that way. Losing an elevator when flying at high speeds will make the plane pull up very hard and most likley disable the pilot. The accident with the "Galloping Gosth" is an extreme case but it shows how bad it can be to lose control surfaces.

I dont think we want to have our planes to be out of the fight as soon as the first tiny piece come off. Im afraid it will lead to more multi cannon birds trying to take all the snap shots they can hoping to rip of an elevator or something like that.

It would be great if it at least effected some part of the planes performance. I mean it just bugs the living hell out of me, to waste 25 rounds on a plane, only have one chance to make a shot, shoot half their tail off, and yet the plane can still out perform my perfectly capable undamaged plane. I agree that the plane should still be flyable. But it shouldn't be able to freaking barrel roll perfectly during a stall fight. In most planes, you shoot something like an aileron off, or flap, elevator, half wing, it makes the plane still flyable, but is very difficult to keep on fighting an enemy you are engaged with. But of course, you knock half the tail off a plane and the thing flies like nothing even happened. It is just aggravating  that A. a 30mm only shoots half the tail off the plane when you have the chance to finally get a shot, B. The guy is still able to run away because I cant catch em. C. still get out maneuvered because the plane is capable of flying perfectly fine during loops and rolls. I just really think it needs to be a little more tough of flying circumstances.
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Offline FLS

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 11:45:55 AM »
It would be great if it at least effected some part of the planes performance. I mean it just bugs the living hell out of me, to waste 25 rounds on a plane, only have one chance to make a shot, shoot half their tail off, and yet the plane can still out perform my perfectly capable undamaged plane. I agree that the plane should still be flyable. But it shouldn't be able to freaking barrel roll perfectly during a stall fight. In most planes, you shoot something like an aileron off, or flap, elevator, half wing, it makes the plane still flyable, but is very difficult to keep on fighting an enemy you are engaged with. But of course, you knock half the tail off a plane and the thing flies like nothing even happened. It is just aggravating  that A. a 30mm only shoots half the tail off the plane when you have the chance to finally get a shot, B. The guy is still able to run away because I cant catch em. C. still get out maneuvered because the plane is capable of flying perfectly fine during loops and rolls. I just really think it needs to be a little more tough of flying circumstances.

Maybe it would help if you explain how the rudder functions in turns, loops, and rolls. Then we can all see what the problem is.

Offline Wiley

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 12:14:58 PM »
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,288694.45.html

This thread might be of interest.  It does appear there may be some aerodynamic explanation of the phenomenon.

In my experience, different planes are affected differently by the loss of an HStab.  Any 109 or 190 I lose it on has its turning gravely affected, while Spits and Jugs and F4Us, much less so.  My uneducated guess is the difference in elevator authority between them.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 12:31:13 PM »
So you are telling me, that a tail shot with 2-3 20mm hitting it, only clipping 1/2 of the tail off, still allows the plane to perform the same maneuvers at a constant rate during a turn and stall fight? The only plane I feel this actually has a performance effect on is the F4u. It is ridiculous to get a half tail shot on a plane from a good snap shot, only to still be out maneuvered (given they are in a better turning plane) like the fight I had the other night vs a Nik in a p38. Shoot half the tail off and the plane still flies perfectly fine.... That is just dumb to me. How can a plane missing only 1 elevator not have lift, but a plane missing half a tail still has the same lift. Aerodynamically, that doesn't even make sense. Why not just cut the cost all together and only fly with 1 half a tail?

What I am telling you is that a few years ago this topic came up in the forums and HiTech posted the explanation as to why it happens.  Search the forums and you'll find the thread.

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 02:30:51 PM »
Okay, well I read some of it while I had time. I guess it makes sense from the AoA wind vector point of view, but it is a bit difficult to comprehend without watching a video of the air flow.


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Offline Wiley

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 03:05:20 PM »
Okay, well I read some of it while I had time. I guess it makes sense from the AoA wind vector point of view, but it is a bit difficult to comprehend without watching a video of the air flow.


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Assuming it's correct, you hate reality?  :headscratch:  Like most counterintuitive things, I think it's kind of neat that they modeled it rather than going with arbitrary arcade 'damage always degrades performance'.

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2015, 03:51:15 PM »
Assuming it's correct, you hate reality?  :headscratch:  Like most counterintuitive things, I think it's kind of neat that they modeled it rather than going with arbitrary arcade 'damage always degrades performance'.

Wiley.

I'd rather just not even have it modeled at all. What is the likelihood of a plane being shot to hell and only losing half a horizontal stab, especially by a 30mm. It just happens too often and I find it tacky. 
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Offline cobia38

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Re: The half tail damage model
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2015, 05:23:27 PM »
I'd rather just not even have it modeled at all. What is the likelihood of a plane being shot to hell and only losing half a horizontal stab, especially by a 30mm. It just happens too often and I find it tacky.

 just out of curiosity,what differance does it make if a 30 mm takes a part off or a 303 or 50 cal ?
 the result is the same,why should it be more "tacky"


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