Author Topic: bogies on my 6  (Read 6943 times)

Offline mikev

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bogies on my 6
« on: July 31, 2015, 03:12:26 AM »
  a typical night for me. dont ask how this happens to me its becoming quite regular. the question is what do you do now. and i do not have any magic tricks for this . the game is fly to a fight, so i do . when 1 plane turns into 8 this happens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwxvgIWJXe4
1 Of these days you will regret shooting me down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R4qb6_RPUc

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 03:42:57 AM »
well, from my viewing of it

first thing is you are not checking your views quick enough ( although you purposely was flying toward a sea of red icons )

the next thing I noticed is that you are not properly riding the tunnel, regardless if you was pulling + or - G's ( blackout = +, redout = - )........ every millisecond you put yourself to where you are blacked out or red' out, you do not have any control of your plane...

next thing I notice, was once ( at the beginning ) that High F4U was on your HIGH 6, after you first noticed/saw him you only looked back ( checked 6 ) maybe 2 times if that...

You need a lecture on SA, and go from that

I am not trying to be mean or hard, just giving my observance..

films in .ahf format are 100 times better to help someone than videos from youtube

hope this helps

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline SPKmes

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 04:35:03 AM »
You basically only fly one plain...  although you are twisting and turning (which would look like stick stir) you do not change direction...In the first part I thought you were setting up for a BarrelRollDefence however you basically continued in the same direction you were flying....  you need to try turn back into the gaggle...with that many you will die no doubt but all that happened there is you wiggled up and down side to side... No chopping throttle to get a couple in front...  no real evasive maneuvers... much the same for the second part... you had two up high....you lost one (from the views in the vid) and didn't push the fight with the initial bogie...It would have been 2V1 up higher than the lower cons...but it looked like you decided to try for an easy kill dove in full throttle they evaded and the two cons up with you initially had all the time to run you down...and the rest of the gaggle were there for if you turned....

I know I am on sometimes at the same time as you...and if you see me give us a shout...the mains are a bore at present in my time slot and I will be more than happy to show you a couple of things to work on...Much easier to show than explain in text (for me)... I'm not a trainer and not the top of the roster but I can see  a couple of glaring issues that will help your AH experience 

Offline FLS

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 09:57:42 AM »
SPKmes is referring to your plane of maneuver. The point rolls don't move you out of the way as much as a loaded roll where you add pitch input.

The primary mistake in the video is not turning towards the F4U as soon as you saw him on your high 6. It's the biggest threat and the only bandit targeting you.   

Ask yourself before the fight, what is your plan? If you only plan on flying to the fight why would you win? What is your plan to win the fight? You may have to change your plan every time the bandits respond but you still need a rational plan if you expect to win a fight. If you choose to fight from a disadvantage it's normal to lose. On the plus side it's easier to find fights if you let the bandits have the advantage.

Offline mikev

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2015, 02:03:53 PM »
while this video shows the lack of acm on my part and also does not show the fact i had 4 other pilots who sent me in to set up picks. my guess is they went after the f4u which i saw break . TC this was last night at a1 i believe you were there from the 200 chat.
  in the 2nd fight same situation  he took out my left elevator which is why i went for the deck . either way i would of gone this is a classic view of gang banging.
  wont be playing this weekend due to a prior engagement but my next video on this thread i hope to show more acm . while my spit can out turn and out maneuver almost all the other planes its this kind of situation which give me the most problems .

1 Of these days you will regret shooting me down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R4qb6_RPUc

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2015, 02:34:24 PM »
Heya mikev,

yes sir, I was there and a1 was getting hammered pretty good

I just sent you a pm with my email address, so if you would like, I would rather see the actual AH film, it will help me or any trainer better decipher/break down and evaluate what is going on and let us help you more efficiently......

I was dog tired when I replied to this thread so early this morning......

FLS posted a great breakdown of your youtube video, and tongs says he isn't a trainer.. but He is better than enough to be one, he is being modest..... if ya'll are on at the same time, as I think he posted......take Tongs up on his offer......

let me know if I can be of any help, that's why we are here

Have A Great Day!

Cheers

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Delirium

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2015, 02:49:11 PM »
The others nailed most of the problems.

I would add you should be looking at the plane that is your biggest threat more than the others. Why dive away at 2:05 against a plane that isn't an immediate threat and ignore the yak already on your 6 o'clock? That is the biggest mark of inexperience and desperation within Aces High.

The other thing I noticed is the lack of throttle control, you appeared to be full throttle and fighting black out much of the time.
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Offline ink

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2015, 03:30:52 PM »
well, from my viewing of it

first thing is you are not checking your views quick enough ( although you purposely was flying toward a sea of red icons )

the next thing I noticed is that you are not properly riding the tunnel, regardless if you was pulling + or - G's ( blackout = +, redout = - )........ every millisecond you put yourself to where you are blacked out or red' out, you do not have any control of your plane...

next thing I notice, was once ( at the beginning ) that High F4U was on your HIGH 6, after you first noticed/saw him you only looked back ( checked 6 ) maybe 2 times if that...

You need a lecture on SA, and go from that

I am not trying to be mean or hard, just giving my observance..

films in .ahf format are 100 times better to help someone than videos from youtube

hope this helps

TC


I second this in a big way :aok

while you are trying to reverse someone you absolutely have to keep your eye on them the entire time....

like Del said the biggest threat is the guy you must watch the closest but dont get wrapped up with just him....


if you really want to fight the hoard come in a bit higher.....

ALT is your friend....get a good starting position....Numbers are the hardest thing to over come...no matter what you are flying...


when someone is dropping on you, look at the planes attitude....if he is leaning to the left....IE his right wing is hi....I will break to his right, and depending on situation I will break Hi or lo...personally I like to fight in the vert so I always try to climb during maneuvers....(that's obviously not always possible)

this also applies to someone heading right at you....go to the opposite that they are leaning....

imagine a giant ball between you and your enemy....the ball represents his gun solution...(the absolute last place you want to be)...you want to merge with them in such a way as to make the ball as small as possible....while he stays in your own gun solution....

dont bother trying to saddle someone....couple reasons...

the dead 6 shot is one of the hardest to make

and it takes too long, by time you do he has 10 friends...kill him quick...go for the angles.....go around the ball of his gun solution...then pull into him and rake his plane....aiming for the cockpit....


good luck :salute

Offline cohofly

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 03:33:12 PM »
Decisions, decisions, decisions! Film1: Your airspeed was good.........but...before the film starts you transferred alt for speed. This choice put you at 2.5-3K inbound to a capped field/town. You broke left after recognizing the 1A was a threat and force him to overshoot, that was a good choice. You then broke back to the right putting you into the mouth of the mob. From that point on its only a matter of time, 99/100 pilots aren't making it out of there! I believe the ACM advice given by better sticks than me here on the thread are sound, and are something that will make you a better stick. There is no failsafe, fancy maneuver that will get 6 guys off your tail! Its about not putting yourself in that position in the first place. That first decision way back before the film starts may have meant the difference between you and the 1A fighting alone and you in the mouth of the lion. It will come as you seem to have a willingness to learn and get better.
<S>
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« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 04:17:11 PM by cohofly »
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Offline Puma44

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 06:02:46 PM »
Some observations:
 
1.  When taking on a horde of red icons, offset them all to one side.  Don't make it easy for             
       them to surround you.  Better yet, try to get around behind the horde when they are
       chasing someone else and start picking off the trailers.  Most aren't checking deep six
       in the midst of a horde chase.

2.  When maneuvering, pull to force the opponent out of your plane of motion, creating more
       angles for him to deal with.

3.  Doing aileron rolls doesn't present much of a offensive problem for a competent opponent
       If he is patient, he'll wait for you to quit doing it or just lead your rolling plane of motion.

4.  If theres  a horde of red chasing you down low, take em down to the dirt and start
       maneuvering out of plane.  Some of them will overshoot into the dirt.  Some will pull off.
       Some will keep coming.  But, not all of them.

5.  Get with someone who really knows BFM/ACM and how to effectively use it.  If you learn 
       the basics and practice a lot, you'll be a force to be reckoned with. 

 :salute
       
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 06:06:17 PM by Puma44 »



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline mikev

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2015, 10:40:03 PM »
Well i really appreciate all the advise so far . I have spent a lot of time in the TA with Morfiend who knows my abilities pretty well. some days i come home from work and i feel dead arm and i dont fly with the greatest of ease lol . other days i do better . there have been times (very few) where i have shaken off a mob like this using a rolling scissors along with some throttle changes and other ideas i try. as much as we all need to use the basic acm and bfm , we need to never give up on the idea that we need to experiment with different ideas.
1 Of these days you will regret shooting me down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R4qb6_RPUc

Offline morfiend

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2015, 01:12:37 PM »
Yes I have worked with Mike several time and I dont even have to watch the film to have a good idea what and how he flew.


   Puma was spot on with the aileron rolls as I've watched you do this infront of me many times and as I said you need to vary the rate and size of the rolls,just rolling around the axis of your plane allows the enemy to shoot all sorts of parts off the A/C.

  Another bad habit you have Mike is that you constantly turn nose down and give up alt in the process.

 All that said I have seen some improvements since we first met,keep at it,practice.practice,practice!  Rome wasnt built in a day!

     :salute

 PS:  Mike you have been given some good advice,I would reread the posts and pick something to work on.

Offline mikev

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 03:42:31 AM »
well as i said was gone all weekend but managed to play a few hours sunday night. as i said before sometimes i start out dead armed and cannot do any thing right. here are the typical dead arm mistakes. everything from stalling to blacking out and missing a shot. but i will say this  i did reach my goal this month. 60 kills .only took 425 sorties . Morfiend says "Rome was not built in a day" well lets hope it does not take me that long to get this figured out.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaSP0r6R53Q&feature=youtube_gdata
1 Of these days you will regret shooting me down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R4qb6_RPUc

Offline Muzzy

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 06:27:05 AM »
Looking at the second video I noticed the following:

1. In some cases your reactions are a bit slow. During that first merge, you had a con low to your left with speed and you kind of watched him go by before making your turn. I think you need to time your turn towards as he is passing you. If you're breaking after he's gone past, then very often it's too late to get on him. In this instance, he had plenty of time to extend and come back around on you.

2. I'm seeing a lot of flat or nose-low turns. Basically you are trying to pull a hard turn to get on a con's six, but the turn you want is far too sharp to pull off. In order to avoid blacking out or stalling, you need to rely on nose-high turns (high yo-yo's) in order to get the job done. This is a common error among new pilots. In one sequence you tried to hold a very sharp turn for several seconds, but it was apparent that you were never going to be able to get your guns on him. If I'm diving on a con and I see he's going to turn sharply away from me, I will pull up and roll until the top of my canopy (lift vector) is pointed in the con's general direction. I then watch him through the top view to see what he does next.  If he continues the turn so I don't have a shot, I can level out to preserve my alt advantage. If I think I can get on his six, I'll pull through and loop back down on him. The key is that first move. A vertical component allows me to turn more sharply than a flat turn, especially if you have more speed than your con does. Instead of trying to pull a turn that you won't be able to sustain, you turn your speed into altitude, slow yourself down, and roll to keep an eye on your target.

3. On a related note, in situations where you're outnumbered, it's essential to hang on to your altitude if at all possible. Stay above the highest con and only commit to an attack if you can isolate a target from his fellows. The minute you commit to an attack, that con is going to scream for help, so you can't afford to get fixed on him or get locked into a tail chase for an extended period of time. If he avoids you, don't push the situation...get back on your perch (grab some altitude) and wait for another opportunity.

4. Energy is a combination of speed and altitude. Altitude is money in the bank. Speed is money in your pocket while on a shopping spree...lots of buying power but dwindling reserves. Maneuvering is like dropping cash on a bet....you're hoping it will pay off in the form of a position advantage, but you don't know for sure. A hard flat turn costs you speed and won't put money in the bank...it's one of the most expensive things you can do in the game. A nose high turn or a high yo-yo is much more economical because you are "banking" some of your speed in the form of altitude. The guy who wins is usually the one that spends his energy money wisely.

5. That being said, you will win more fights if you can get the other guy to blow off energy on bad investments...the more hard turns he makes, the slower he gets, and the more altitude he drops, the less  he'll have to spend on maneuvers. You want to get him into what I call LOSS mode: LOw, Slow, and Stupid. To that end, you shouldn't always be thinking in terms of getting the shot on the first pass, especially if he's lower than you are. A lot of pilots will try to use your speed against you by getting you to commit to a dive then suckering you into a hard turn that you can't possibly sustain. Sometimes I will make a quick dive on a con just to get him to turn, or to test his skill, or to get him to bleed off energy. If he doesn't see me, fine...I'll take the shot...if he breaks hard...great, I got him to blow some e, so I'll pull up and get set for another pass. If he pulls up into me at the last second or does some other cool stuff, then I know he's a good stick and I need to be careful. Sometimes it's better to poke at him just to see what he'll do. To that end...

6. Patience. Take your time to observe the airspace and see what's going on. You don't need to dive into a hopeless situation or press an attack when it's obvious it won't succeed. Pull up, climb out...be satisfied that you got your enemy to blow energy and reset yourself. Sometimes I will fly around the edge of a fight and simply watch what allies and enemies are doing...this can be instructive as a learning tool because you can observe the mistakes others make. It also gets you practice in observing the big picture and spotting opportunities. There are times when it's fun to dive into a 3 or 4 v 1 just to test yourself, but sometimes you may want to pull back and wait for the odds to shift in your favor.

7. Lastly...just to reinforce the point....remember those high g blackout or red-out maneuvers are costing you money. Every time you try one, remember that you are blowing a ton of cash and ask yourself if you're getting a good return on your investment. Sure, it can be worth it if it will get you position, but every second you hold that turn, those energy dollars are flying out your cockpit window. Spend your E wisely!

Hope that helps. I of course defer to your trainer if any of my advice is inaccurate or conflicting with what he may have told you. Older and wiser heads, after all. :)


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Offline morfiend

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Re: bogies on my 6
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2015, 03:48:48 PM »
^^^  Great stuff Muzzy,pretty much what I have been trying to teach mike!  I may even use that money analogy!



    :salute