Porking. Needs to be changed.

[Scca]

The first page of this thread was pretty interesting but I can't bring myself to read anymore.

 


- - edit - -

Ammo Bunkers do die quite easily; but if you change it then those who don't like change won't get their way. So then it comes down to the needs of the many and the few.

 

I too think it's much ado about nothing.  They can be resupplied if it's really that important, and unless the strats are porked, it's 30 minutes down time. Make them harder will only change the method with which determined people will use to take them out.   

It's not like there isn't another base, usually 25 miles away, you can bring ords from

[The Fugitive]

I too think it's much ado about nothing.  They can be resupplied if it's really that important, and unless the strats are porked, it's 30 minutes down time. Make them harder will only change the method with which determined people will use to take them out.   

Again, THAT'S ALL RIGHT. Nobody is saying to make dropping the ords impossible, they just want it so it can be defended against. As it is now a single player in a fast cannon birds can do it with ease very quickly, much like the dropping of HQ. Instead if it was toughened up a bit it would take a couple guys with bombs to do it making it more defensible. Two guys under pressure from defense, one guy may miss, one guy may drop then try to cover the second guy by fighting with defenders and so on.

I see it as all good, more of a challenge, less running from fights. Now if you want to say those players who don't want to fight are getting left out here as "player A" or what ever, why are they paying to play a game they can easily play for free off line and accomplish the same thing? The whole point of a MMO is to interact with other players, NOT avoid them. Tweak the game to bring this interaction back into the game.

[Scca]

Again, THAT'S ALL RIGHT. Nobody is saying to make dropping the ords impossible, they just want it so it can be defended against. As it is now a single player in a fast cannon birds can do it with ease very quickly, much like the dropping of HQ. Instead if it was toughened up a bit it would take a couple guys with bombs to do it making it more defensible. Two guys under pressure from defense, one guy may miss, one guy may drop then try to cover the second guy by fighting with defenders and so on.

I see it as all good, more of a challenge, less running from fights. Now if you want to say those players who don't want to fight are getting left out here as "player A" or what ever, why are they paying to play a game they can easily play for free off line and accomplish the same thing? The whole point of a MMO is to interact with other players, NOT avoid them. Tweak the game to bring this interaction back into the game.

This is not like HQ at all. One person can't drop ords for an entire country with 1 cannon bird. One base, yes, all of them no. Bad comparison.

It's one guy, one base, and, again, it often can be resupplied before the porker lands.

[JunkyII]

This is not like HQ at all. One person can't drop ords for an entire country with 1 cannon bird. One base, yes, all of them no. Bad comparison.

It's one guy, one base, and, again, it often can be resupplied before the porker lands.

One man can pork an entire front and not be contested on a few maps...base takers do create situations for furballs to be made...but if the base capture attempt is never made because ords are down on a front...that's when we see no action on that front....which if anyone doesn't agree, you only need to go look in the MA...it happens all the time.

So comparison is one pilot can make an entire front a stale fight...which DOES compare to the HQ drops. (Definitely not to the same extent)

I never said it's fine the way it is. I said nobody has given Hitech a good reason to change it. You want Hitech to give you a good reason not to change it so you don't call him an ___ for thinking it's fine the way it is? Good luck with that.

There are 8 pages of people bringing valid arguments to the table...in fact there are more for why it should be changed then it shouldn't...but we acknowledge it's HTC choice and my hope is that it is something they change with AH3.

[Lusche]

One man can pork an entire front and not be contested on a few maps...base takers do create situations for furballs to be made...but if the base capture attempt is never made because ords are down on a front...that's when we see no action on that front....which if anyone doesn't agree, you only need to go look in the MA...it happens all the time.

One pilot alone porking an entire front is very rare. It also takes some time, so the time the entire front is devoid of ords is also more limited. On top of that, it's also more easily undone by running supps than the HQ (10 vs 4 minutes per drop). It's much more frequent to see ords at that one, critical enemy base not being porked at all, despite having some friendlies over it


What I'm really missing in this thread so far (unless I overlooked it) is a thorough examination how making porking ords more difficult is really changing the game and who's really going to benefit from it.

I'm afraid it might  not the be the side gettin horded...
I'm not really taking any sides in this topic, but after many years of AH experience I#m rather cautious (and almost pessimistic) when it comes to such proposals.
Remember how the increased base dar ranges in the LW ("Yayy! They can't hide anymore!") actually massively helped the hordes??

[bustr]

Why don't you guys help get AH3 here faster by testing the alpha patches?

Alpha70 was just released and a bunch of eyes on it with feed back will get us to alpha71 sooner than Hitech will ever change anything in AH2. He's just introduced the ability to turn off some very specific lighting enhancements that gave me back a few FPS without killing the over all visual effect of AH3.

Here:

Dear Hitech,

At some point convenient to you in the near future, please give us a brief functionality over view of the differences that will exist between AH2 default MA play and AH3.

Thank you. 

Beyond this point, you guys just like surprising yourselves when your shovel bites your kester in those deep holes you like to dig together.

[FLS]

[quote author=Lusche link=topic=374094.msg4985465#msg4985465 date=1439594967

What I'm really missing in this thread so far (unless I overlooked it) is a thorough examination how making porking ords more difficult is really changing the game and who's really going to benefit from it.

[/quote]

 

[JunkyII]

[quote author=Lusche link=topic=374094.msg4985465#msg4985465 date=1439594967

What I'm really missing in this thread so far (unless I overlooked it) is a thorough examination how making porking ords more difficult is really changing the game and who's really going to benefit from it.



 

Ords are more defendable because A, isn't just point and shoot, B heavy planes don't perform like cannon planes without ord.

From my personal experience in Aces High, when a front is porked...everyone leaves it which ends up being one side getting jumped by 2 hordes...stale gameplay which I've already stated...so have others.

Bustr,
Not going to spend my free time....which is very little these days playing an alpha and finding bugs. I'm sure the problems(I have) in Aces High 2 are either going to be the same in Aces High 3 or they won't matter at all...so playing the alpha really doesn't matter to me.

[Changeup]

Ords are more defendable because A, isn't just point and shoot, B heavy planes don't perform like cannon planes without ord.

From my personal experience in Aces High, when a front is porked...everyone leaves it which ends up being one side getting jumped by 2 hordes...stale gameplay which I've already stated...so have others.

Bustr,
Not going to spend my free time....which is very little these days playing an alpha and finding bugs. I'm sure the problems(I have) in Aces High 2 are either going to be the same in Aces High 3 or they won't matter at all...so playing the alpha really doesn't matter to me.

And this is why Junky is and always will be one of my favorite folks in AH (I'm sure unbeknownst to him). Direct, truthful, knowledgable, respectful opponent, and most of all, as most certainly demonstrated in this response, will never suffer a fool.

If Squat were only here...

[bustr]

Junky has an excuse related to his current deployment, you don't. And when did you start riding on Junky's skirt tails. Have you downloaded and tested the alpha yet? Everyone's PC is unique and feedback is equally valuable.

Pretty much both of you are admitting you are here to "dig holes" to see who flinches first when the shovel tip makes it's grand stage entrance. Even for Junky that's kind of thread bare Vanscrewish at this late date.

[Randy1]

[quote author=Lusche link=topic=374094.msg4985465#msg4985465 date=1439594967

What I'm really missing in this thread so far (unless I overlooked it) is a thorough examination how making porking ords more difficult is really changing the game and who's really going to benefit from it.



 

Because rods are down for such a long time stopping "Attack" game play.  Add to that the ease porking ords and the ability to several bases in one run you make heavy fighter a two sector flight.

Waffle idea post of increasing blast radius is interesting but changing ords down to fifteen minutes would work as well.

[BaldEagl]

It used to be that troop barracks were primary field targets. You used to be able to swoop in and take all the barracks down in a pass or two, stopping the horde from using that base to take another.  Troops were always down at critical bases along a front causing the fights to move to other areas.

People on the BBs whined so loudly that HT doubled or tripled the number of troop barracks at a field making it nearly impossible to take out troops so the focus shifted to ord bunkers.

I agree that ords are too easy to take out.  A single pass in a cannon bird and they're gone and if that planes coming in hot from alt there's no way to stop it.

So how about this; make ord bunkers harder to take down while making troop barracks easier.  In fact, make them about the same difficulty adding a bit of strategy back into the game.  I don't care if you need ords or not but neither should be able to be taken out in a single pass with cannons.

[The Fugitive]

It used to be that troop barracks were primary field targets. You used to be able to swoop in and take all the barracks down in a pass or two, stopping the horde from using that base to take another.  Troops were always down at critical bases along a front causing the fights to move to other areas.

People on the BBs whined so loudly that HT doubled or tripled the number of troop barracks at a field making it nearly impossible to take out troops so the focus shifted to ord bunkers.

I agree that ords are too easy to take out.  A single pass in a cannon bird and they're gone and if that planes coming in hot from alt there's no way to stop it.

So how about this; make ord bunkers harder to take down while making troop barracks easier.  In fact, make them about the same difficulty adding a bit of strategy back into the game.  I don't care if you need ords or not but neither should be able to be taken out in a single pass with cannons.

Whats wrong with players bringing bombs and dropping the targets with them? It's a skill anyone can learn, and it makes the fight just that bit more active.

[Patches1]

What I'm really missing in this thread so far (unless I overlooked it) is a thorough examination how making porking ords more difficult is really changing the game and who's really going to benefit from it.

I agree, Lushe, and here are the reasons why.

When I first began playing AH about 10 years ago, I could take a heavy F4U-1D Corsair loaded with 2x1ks and 8 rockets and sink a CV in a single pass because a CV had a hardness of about 3k and didn't have the 8k hardness it has today. I used to sink CVs regularly, and then look for an air to air fight. But, folks complained about CVs being too easy to sink and that soon changed and I soon quit trying to sink CVs, and began playing the Air to Ground game where I could take out the ords and barracks on small and medium airfields with the ords I carried on my Corsair. Again, people complained, and, again, new field layouts and increased ack-ack took my game to a level where I was only successful 20% of the time air to ground, and so I took my fight up to the Bombers where I substituted ordnance for fuel, and flew to 25-30 thousand feet hunting bombers. Again, people complained about Bombers being too difficult to shoot down, but I don't recall that HT hardened Bombers at all, and they became my favorite prey, at the time, in my Corsair. People complained that the Bombers guns were too strong and should be neutered, but I didn't find that to be true, and I shot them down, or was shot down by them.

Did I like the hardening of the CVs?
No! But I adjusted my individual game play to support others and still sank some.

Did I like the addition of more ack on airfields and the re-arrangement of the targets on the airfields?
No! But I adjusted my game play to support others and still managed to survive some solo runs.

Did I like any of the changes over the 10 years that consequently affected me, personally, whilst flying my favorite aircraft?
No! I simply adjusted my game play to make the game fun for me again.

BUT! There comes a time of diminishing returns, and by this I mean that the more difficult you make it for a single player to enjoy him/herself, the fewer are going to play. And the harder you make targets to drop, the few who do play will rely upon others to help accomplish what they themselves cannot accomplish individually and soon, there will be fewer to help the few.

I remember when the skies were full of furballs, and CVs were ripe to sink! Bombers filled the skies and Squads of pilots flew together to challenge other Squads!

If you take the fun out of the game for the individual pilot, you will soon have no pilots left. I am at that point now.

[BaldEagl]

Whats wrong with players bringing bombs and dropping the targets with them? It's a skill anyone can learn, and it makes the fight just that bit more active.

I didn't say anything was wrong with it.  I said I don't care either way.